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Re: [Rsvp] RE: IANA Considerations for RSVP
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*>
*> Going forward, I hope the IETF makes it mandatory
*> to have outside work examined in the relevant WGs with
*> the same seriousness as regular WG items (or assign
*> evaluation teams, like design teams). This would bring
*> overall sanity and be beneficial for all groups.
*>
This is one good choice -- the other is to clearly fence off the
non-IETF extensions with a surgeon general's warning.
Bob Braden
*> regards,
*>
*>
*> Bala Rajagopalan
*> Tellium, Inc.
*> 2 Crescent Pl.
*> Ocean Port, NJ 07757
*> USA
*> Ph: +1-732-923-4237
*> Email: braja@tellium.com
*>
*>
*> > -----Original Message-----
*> > From: Dimitri.Papadimitriou@alcatel.be
*> > [mailto:Dimitri.Papadimitriou@alcatel.be]
*> > Sent: Friday, January 24, 2003 2:48 AM
*> > To: Bala Rajagopalan
*> > Cc: 'David Charlap'; Brian Hassink; Bob Braden; rsvp@ISI.EDU;
*> > ccamp@ops.ietf.org; mpls@UU.NET; kireeti@juniper.net; iana@ISI.EDU;
*> > sob@harvard.edu; mankin@psg.com; bwijnen@lucent.com
*> > Subject: Re: IANA Considerations for RSVP
*> >
*> >
*> > bala,
*> >
*> > your assertion "none of the IETF WGs (specifically, CCAMP)
*> > have shown any interest in discussing the (informational)
*> > drafts about ASON or OIF at any length." is not true
*> > if you were really participating to the ccamp wg meeting
*> > in yokohama you would have heard that the consensus was
*> > (as requested by the chair) to send a ason functional
*> > spec to the ccamp wg in order for the latter to define
*> > the needed extensions - the proposal was to achieve
*> > a first cut of these extensions in november '02 but
*> > nothing happened everything goes to "informational"
*> >
*> > the reason why suddenly things gets tunneled until
*> > reaching the current situation are still unclear for
*> > me (one of the explanation i have is the clear rambo
*> > competition played by the oif in backing up these
*> > extensions instead of letting the corresponding
*> > responsibility to the appropriate body i.e. the ietf)
*> >
*> > thanks,
*> > - dimitri.
*> >
*> > Bala Rajagopalan wrote:
*> > >
*> > > Hello,
*> > >
*> > > First, the IETF has been instrumental in putting
*> > > IP/MPLS protoocols for use in the optical control plane.
*> > > You can't now complain that RSVP is being indiscriminately
*> > > used for purposes other than intended. To quote
*> > > a cliche, you can't have the cake intact and modify it
*> > > too.
*> > >
*> > > Second, none of the IETF WGs (specifically, CCAMP)
*> > > have shown any interest in discussing the (informational)
*> > > drafts about ASON or OIF at any length. Serious
*> > > consideration by the WGs should lead to an examination
*> > > of the solutions proposed and a liaison to ITU-T or OIF
*> > > or whichever body about tweaks that are out
*> > > of whack with the protocol architecture.
*> > > Instead, what we usually end up with are WG
*> > > Rambos who simply shoot down the entire model of
*> > > ITU-T or OIF and move on.
*> > >
*> > > Finally, it's not so easy to steer away from RSVP altogether
*> > > (even if it makes sense to do so)
*> > > due to the installed code base of dominant vendors.
*> > >
*> > > In summary, there is a lot of pressure to use RSVP outside
*> > > of IETF, and the IETF should systematically review the
*> > > outside work to ensure technical sanity.
*> > >
*> > > Regards,
*> > >
*> > > Bala Rajagopalan
*> > > Tellium, Inc.
*> > > 2 Crescent Pl.
*> > > Ocean Port, NJ 07757
*> > > USA
*> > > Ph: +1-732-923-4237
*> > > Email: braja@tellium.com
*> > >
*> > > > -----Original Message-----
*> > > > From: David Charlap [mailto:David.Charlap@marconi.com]
*> > > > Sent: Thursday, January 23, 2003 11:15 AM
*> > > > To: Brian Hassink
*> > > > Cc: Bob Braden; rsvp@ISI.EDU; ccamp@ops.ietf.org; mpls@UU.NET;
*> > > > kireeti@juniper.net; iana@ISI.EDU; sob@harvard.edu;
*> > mankin@psg.com;
*> > > > bwijnen@lucent.com
*> > > > Subject: Re: IANA Considerations for RSVP
*> > > >
*> > > >
*> > > > Brian Hassink wrote:
*> > > > > Didn't the IETF set the precedent by extending RSVP from an
*> > > > IntServ protocol to an MPLS protocol?
*> > > >
*> > > > There's a big difference. MPLS and IntServ are both IETF
*> > > > groups. (And
*> > > > RSVP has/had its own working group anyway). Also, most of
*> > > > the key RSVP
*> > > > people were involved in the development of RSVP-TE.
*> > > >
*> > > > This is very different from what I'm describing - where
*> > > > people who have
*> > > > no prior RSVP experience decide that they can start changing
*> > > > it without
*> > > > understing it, and without even notifying the IETF groups
*> > > > that did all
*> > > > of the development work.
*> > > >
*> > > > I'mnot saying that RSVP should never be extended. I'm saying
*> > > > that those
*> > > > groups that are writing extensions should be consulting with
*> > > > those who
*> > > > have been developing and maintaining it (in the RSVP and MPLS
*> > > > groups) in
*> > > > order to ensure that:
*> > > > - Their goal can't be achieved without extending
*> > the language
*> > > > - That their extension doesn't overlap a similar extension
*> > > > from somebody else.
*> > > > - That their extension doesn't significantly change
*> > the overall
*> > > > semantics of RSVP.
*> > > > - That their extension is sufficiently flexible so
*> > that other
*> > > > groups can build off of it instead of
*> > re-inventing the wheel
*> > > > with yet another incompatible extension.
*> > > >
*> > > > Not only isn't this happening, but there appears to be no
*> > > > desire to see
*> > > > this happen.
*> > > >
*> > > > -- David
*> > > >
*> >
*> > --
*> > Papadimitriou Dimitri
*> > E-mail : dimitri.papadimitriou@alcatel.be
*> > Private: http://www.rc.bel.alcatel.be/~papadimd/index.html
*> > E-mail : dpapadimitriou@psg.com
*> > Public : http://psg.com/~dpapadimitriou/
*> > Address: Fr. Wellesplein 1, B-2018 Antwerpen, Belgium
*> > Phone : Work: +32 3 2408491 - Home: +32 2 3434361
*> >
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