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RE: New draft on Extra class LSP



Yoshihiko,

> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-ccamp@ops.ietf.org 
> [mailto:owner-ccamp@ops.ietf.org] On Behalf Of Yoshihiko SUEMURA
> Sent: Saturday, July 05, 2003 1:50 AM
> To: Dimitri.Papadimitriou@alcatel.be; Kohei Shiomoto
> Cc: v.sharma@ieee.org; Adrian Farrel; ccamp@ops.ietf.org
> Subject: Re: New draft on Extra class LSP
> 
> 
> Dimitri,
> 
> Are you saying the following?
> 
> - In Shared Mesh Restoration, bandwidth reserved for recovery LSPs can
>   be advertised by using the "Max LSP Bandwidth at priority 
> X" field in
>   the Interface Switching Capability sub-TLV.
>   
> - You can setup a low priority LSP (or an Extra-LSP) by 
> setting priority
>   X at the Setup Priority field of the Session Attribute 
> object in the RSVP
>   message.
This is exactly right.  We should probably add these two bullet points
to the P&R drafts for clarification.

Thanks,
Jonathan

> 
> This makes sense to me. But, I am still wondering if it is 
> the way the priority mechanism should be used.
> 
> Regards,
> 
> Yoshihiko
> 
> On Fri, 04 Jul 2003 14:04:04 +0200, 
> Dimitri.Papadimitriou@alcatel.be wrote:
> 
> > hi kohei,
> > 
> > in between "1:1 lsp protection with extra-traffic lsp" (covered in 
> > section 6 of the termino and section 7 of the signaling 
> i-d) and "1:1 
> > lsp re-routing without extra-traffic lsp" (defined in 
> section 7 of the 
> > termino and section 8 of the signaling i-d) where it is 
> assumed that 
> > these resources can be re-used by lower priority lsp which is of 
> > course *not* the recovery lsp associated to the working 
> lsp, i do not 
> > see where additional markup is needed from a signaling perspective 
> > (since these extra-traffic lsp have their specific bit 
> setting in the 
> > protection object), while the lower priority lsp 
> established using the 
> > preemptible recovery resources are also signaled using 
> existing rfc's 
> > and wg i-d's (but this is not within in the scope of the 
> signaling i-d 
> > i am referring to), and for what relates to the signaling 
> i-d i think 
> > that the distinction has been clearly made for the 
> extra-traffic lsps 
> > (that can or not carry carry traffic).
> > 
> > now of course you can always tell me here the following: once the 
> > recovery lsp is (control-plane) established in a 
> shared-mesh recovery 
> > scheme, it gives raise to a "new class" of resources from which the 
> > resources have been pre-selected but the assumption made 
> here (see the 
> > analysis i-d) is that this pool is already within the priority list 
> > already made available in gmpls-routing i-d's isc sub-tlv - this is 
> > the baseline from which we started in atlanta (note: this 
> may evolve 
> > but i don't have for the time being any strong rationale to 
> make this 
> > evolving except that it would complexify the control of an already 
> > complex recovery scheme - i mean here shared mesh recovery).
> > 
> > what i would thus suggest, since by the time even the relatively 
> > simple recovery schemes have already shown to be more complex (than
> > expected) once control plane driven, it is to clearly 
> provide us, the 
> > (potential) rationales to perform this separation and 
> achieve further 
> > expected optimization or see it from the other way around - because 
> > this is probably the main issue - what are the protocol 
> aspects that 
> > are not affected by the current baseline, that would be in 
> case such 
> > kind of mechanism is introduced ? in any case you would fall into a 
> > scope that we don't cover here since the proposed approach does not 
> > assume any additional gmpls routing extensions (see also 
> conclusion of 
> > the analysis i-d, thus here i do not think appropriate to 
> make a come 
> > back now on a consensus made last year) but if people can 
> demonstrate 
> > that new paradigms and further optimization based on gmpls-routing 
> > extensions would better meet their future expected needs 
> and thus fall 
> > into a new charter item, really fine with me (i would be 
> glad to help 
> > in this effort, in
> > case)
> > 
> > thanks,
> > - dimitri.
> > 
> > Kohei Shiomoto wrote:
> > > Hi, Dimitri,
> > > 
> > > In the extra LSP draft, we want to make clear distinction between 
> > > lower priority LSP and extra LSP.
> > > 
> > > Priority mechanism is used to differentiate the service 
> quality for 
> > > working resource. The resource for working LSPs is contended by 
> > > working LSPs of different priority classes. Service quality is 
> > > dependent on traffic ratio of different priority classes; service 
> > > quality of lower priority LSP degrades if higher priority LSP 
> > > request comes frequently. Resource for protecting LSP in 
> shared mesh 
> > > restoration is preempted only when the working LSP fails. Service 
> > > quality does not depend on traffic ratio of different priority 
> > > class. We could define another service class which does 
> not depend 
> > > on the traffic ratio of different priority class by using 
> resources 
> > > for protecting LSP in shared mesh restoration. Priority 
> mechanism is 
> > > used for service differentiation based on relative traffic volume 
> > > difference while extra LSP is preempted only when the working LSP 
> > > fails. So we should make distinction between lower 
> priority LSP and 
> > > extra LSP.
> > > 
> > > Thanks.
> > > --
> > > Kohei
> > > 
> > > 
> > >>hi vishal,
> > >>
> > >>see in-line...
> > >>
> > >>Vishal Sharma wrote:
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>>Hi Dimitri,
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>>>-----Original Message-----
> > >>>>From: owner-ccamp@ops.ietf.org 
> [mailto:owner-ccamp@ops.ietf.org]On
> > >>>>Behalf Of Dimitri.Papadimitriou@alcatel.be
> > >>>>Sent: Thursday, July 03, 2003 2:45 AM
> > >>>>To: Kohei Shiomoto
> > >>>>Cc: Adrian Farrel; ccamp@ops.ietf.org
> > >>>>Subject: Re: New draft on Extra class LSP
> > >>>>
> > >>>>
> > >>>>hi adrian, kohei,
> > >>>>
> > >>>>in the case of pre-planned re-routing without extra-traffic the 
> > >>>>unallocated protecting resource can be used by other (lower 
> > >>>>priority LSPs) at the condition that the resources are 
> preempted 
> > >>>>when the working LSP fails (hint: i wanted to point out 
> also that 
> > >>>>this should be obvious otherwise there is no reason for having 
> > >>>>this "path protection only")
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>>Actually, I think the terminology choice "without 
> extra-traffic" is 
> > >>>a bit confusing. It wasn't clear how the document distinguishes 
> > >>>between "extra traffic" and "low priority traffic that can be 
> > >>>pre-empted"?
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>it distinguishes between protection and (pre-planned) re- 
> routing, 
> > >>for the former it thus refers to protection with 
> extra-traffic & the 
> > >>latter re-routing without extra-traffic (see also section 
> 7.1 of the 
> > >>terminology doc.) since the end-to-end association 
> delivering path 
> > >>protection does not allow to carry any extra-traffic, now 
> the fact 
> > >>that these resources can be used for lower priority 
> traffic boils us
> > >>down to the setup of low priority lsp (that may be thus
> > >>preempted) but this is not anymore a specific "p&r" issue
> > >>except the fact the trigger for this preemption is internal
> > >>to the network and not an external provisioning or config
> > >>event (but anyway an additional sentence here would more
> > >>than certainly not hurt)
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>>>and the below i-d points out specific aspects (that are covered 
> > >>>>"partially" by other gmpls i-d's) see below:
> > >>>>- advertize the bandwidth: -> gmpls-routing (and bw acct)
> > >>>>- extra class LSP indication in signaling message -> 
> priority in 
> > >>>>(g)mpls signaling
> > >>>>- extra class LSP preemption signaling -> PathErr with 
> SR Flag and 
> > >>>>PathTear (to release the lower priority LSP) but this can be 
> > >>>>qualified here as an "hard preemption" mechanism
> > >>>>- preventing unintended connections -> it is a transient
> > >>>>behaviour that may occur at an intermediate node e.g.
> > >>>>if the previous point is not used, and cross-connection
> > >>>>is fully performed in the downstream direction
> > >>>>
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>>I endorse the need to focus seriously on the last point, 
> since, if 
> > >>>during dropping "extra traffic" or "low priority pre-emptable 
> > >>>traffic", the intermediate nodes end up misconnecting 
> traffic (even 
> > >>>for a short while), it would be a real violation of SLAs.
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>well the issue i wanted to point out is that these lower priority 
> > >>lsp's can be established outside of the scope of the p&r 
> context it 
> > >>refers to larger scope issue (*) - note that this 
> misconnection (as 
> > >>currently specified) does not occur for lsp protection with 
> > >>extra-traffic (see section 7) or if you want the only reason for 
> > >>preemption is protection switching that occurs only on and end-to 
> > >>end basis
> > >>
> > >>(*) i refer here to the mpls mailing list discussion
> > >>
> > >>thanks,
> > >>- dimitri.
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>>I would suspect it
> > >>>would make customer's with mission critical traffic (and their 
> > >>>service providers, implementing such a scheme) very 
> uncomfortable 
> > >>>to know that this is even a remote possibility! :-)
> > >>>
> > >>>-Vishal
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>>>Kohei Shiomoto wrote:
> > >>>>
> > >>>>
> > >>>>>Hi, Adrian
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>>In Section 9 of 
> > >>>>>draft-lang-ccamp-gmpls-recovery-e2e-signaling-01.txt,
> > >>>>>the shared mesh restoration is addressed. Extra 
> traffic cannot be
> > >>>>>carried because the protecting LSPs are not 
> instantiated in shared
> > >>>>>mesh
> > >>>>>restoration networks. But the resource for the 
> protecting LSPs are
> > >>>>>reserved to back up the failure of primary LSPs. The 
> reserved resource
> > >>>>>could be allocated for extra traffic to enhance the network
> > >>>>>utilization.
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>>The purpose of our draft is to initiate the discussion 
> on how to 
> > >>>>>handle extra class LSP using the reserved link resource for the
> > >>>>
> > >>>>
> > >>>>protecting LSPs
> > >>>>
> > >>>>
> > >>>>>while the draft-lang-ccamp-gmpls-recovery-e2e-signaling-01.txt
> > >>>>
> > >>>>
> > >>>>addresses
> > >>>>
> > >>>>
> > >>>>>the signaling of primary and protecting LSPs.
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>>Regarding extra class LSP, the following issues need to be 
> > >>>>>addressed:
> > >>>>>(1) advertisement of available resource for extra 
> class LSP, (2) extra
> > >>>>>class LSP indication in signaling message (3) extra class LSP
> > >>>>
> > >>>>
> > >>>>preemption
> > >>>>
> > >>>>
> > >>>>>signaling, and (4) preventing unintended connections. Our draft
> > >>>>
> > >>>>
> > >>>>provides
> > >>>>
> > >>>>
> > >>>>>the problem statement of these issues.
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>>Hope this clarify the difference.
> > >>>>>Thank you for your interest.
> > >>>>>---
> > >>>>>Kohei
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>>>Shiomoto_san,
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>>Could you help us prepare for Vienna by summarizing the 
> > >>>>>>difference between your draft and
> > >>>>>>draft-lang-ccamp-gmpls-recovery-e2e-signaling-01.txt 
> especially with
> > >>>>>>reference to the carrying of "extra traffic" on the 
> resources of a
> > >>>>>>protection path in a mesh network.
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>>Thanks,
> > >>>>>>Adrian
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>>----- Original Message -----
> > >>>>>>From: "Kohei Shiomoto" <Shiomoto.Kohei@lab.ntt.co.jp>
> > >>>>>>To: <ccamp@ops.ietf.org>
> > >>>>>>Sent: Tuesday, July 01, 2003 3:18 AM
> > >>>>>>Subject: New draft on Extra class LSP
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>Sorry for the incorrect subject in the previous mail. I
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>resend it with a
> > >>>>
> > >>>>
> > >>>>>>>new subject.
> > >>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>Hi, all
> > >>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>Please notice that a new internet-draft has been posted. The 
> > >>>>>>>draft is targeted at the IETF57 ccamp meeting. The draft is 
> > >>>>>>>prepared
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>to initiate
> > >>>>
> > >>>>
> > >>>>>>>the discussion at the ccamp-wg on the extra class 
> LSP service, 
> > >>>>>>>which makes use of reserved but unallocated bandwidth for the
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>protecting LSPs
> > >>>>
> > >>>>
> > >>>>>>>in the pre-planned LSP re-routing recovery method (including
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>shared mesh
> > >>>>
> > >>>>
> > >>>>>>>restoration). Comments and feedbacks are highly appreciated. 
> > >>>>>>>Thanks.
> > >>>>>>>--
> > >>>>>>>Kohei Shiomoto
> > >>>>>>>NTT Network Innovation Laboratories
> > >>>>>>>Phone +81 422 59 4402, Fax +81 422 59 6387
> > >>>>>>>3-9-11 Midori, Musashino, Tokyo 180-8585, Japan
> > >>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>
> > 
> >>>>------------------------------------------------------------------
> > >>>>--------
> > >>>>
> > >>>>
> > >>>>>>----------------------
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>Title : Extra class LSP service using protecting
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>resources in
> > >>>>
> > >>>>
> > >>>>>>>GMPLS networks
> > >>>>>>>Author(s) : K. Shimano et al.
> > >>>>>>>Filename : draft-pil-ccamp-extra-lsp-00.txt
> > >>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>This document provides the problem statement on a 
> extra class 
> > >>>>>>>LSP
> > >>>>>>>ser-
> > >>>>>>>vice and addresses the issues. The extra class LSP 
> uses the resource
> > >>>>>>>reserved but not allocated for the protecting LSPs in the
> > >>>>>>>pre-planned
> > >>>>>>>LSP re-routing without extra-traffic (including shared mesh)
> > >>>>>>>recovery
> > >>>>>>>method. Network utilization is improved because the resource
> > >>>>>>>reserved
> > >>>>>>>for the protecting LSPs are used for the extra class 
> LSPs. The extra
> > >>>>>>>class LSP is preempted less frequently than the conventional
> > >>>>>>>priority
> > >>>>>>>mechanism using setup and holding priorities because 
> the resource
> > >>>>>>>reserved for the protecting LSPs is allocated only 
> if the working
> > >>>>>>>LSP
> > >>>>>>>fails, which is usually expected to rarely occur. 
> This document pro-
> > >>>>>>>poses the extra class LSP service using the resource 
> reserved but
> > >>>>>>>not
> > >>>>>>>allocated for the protecting LSP at the provisioning phase.
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>This docu-
> > >>>>
> > >>>>
> > >>>>>>>ment addresses the issues on the extra class LSP: (1) 
> > >>>>>>>advertisement of available resource, (2) extra class LSP 
> > >>>>>>>indication in
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>signaling message
> > >>>>
> > >>>>
> > >>>>>>>(3) extra class LSP preemption signaling, and (4) preventing
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>unintended
> > >>>>
> > >>>>
> > >>>>>>>connections.
> > >>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>A URL for this Internet-Draft is: 
> > 
> >>>>>>>http://www.ietf.org/internet->
drafts/draft-pil-ccamp-extra-lsp-0
> > >>>>>>>0.txt
> > >>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>--
> > >>>>Papadimitriou Dimitri
> > >>>>E-mail : dimitri.papadimitriou@alcatel.be
> > >>>>Private: http://www.rc.bel.alcatel.be/~papadimd/index.html
> > >>>>E-mail : dpapadimitriou@psg.com
> > >>>>Public : http://psg.com/~dpapadimitriou/
> > >>>>Address: Fr. Wellesplein 1, B-2018 Antwerpen, Belgium
> > >>>>Phone : +32 3 240-8491
> > >>>>
> > >>>>
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>
> > > 
> > 
> > 
> > --
> > Papadimitriou Dimitri
> > E-mail : dimitri.papadimitriou@alcatel.be
> > Private: http://www.rc.bel.alcatel.be/~papadimd/index.html
> > E-mail : dpapadimitriou@psg.com
> > Public : http://psg.com/~dpapadimitriou/
> > Address: Fr. Wellesplein 1, B-2018 Antwerpen, Belgium
> > Phone  : +32 3 240-8491
> > 
> > 
> 
> 
> -----------------------------------------------------------------
> Yoshihiko SUEMURA 
> 
> Networking Research Laboratories, 
> NEC Corporation
> E-mail: y-suemura@bp.jp.nec.com
> Phone: +81 44 856 8109, FAX: +81 44 856 8071
> 
>