RE: Frameformat in a l2cs gmpls rnvironment.

And you are so right on this Igor. The nice thing about the co-cs mode is that the data-plane has not been defined here and works great. Adding a (forced) OOB control-plane is not a big deal.....in fact as we move to the duct the control-plane is of much lesser interest/importance (this is not to belittle it, its just a fact) Where the data-plane has been defined however, for the co-ps mode in MPLS and the PW stuff its unfortunately spawned, it's (how shall I put this politely) 'not so great'. Can I make a plea NOT to screw-up ethernet by attempting to replicate MPLS....in any case the ethernet data-plane belongs to IEEE. I would advise folks here to leave this well alone.

regards, Neil

-----Original Message-----
From: owner-ccamp@ops.ietf.org [mailto:owner-ccamp@ops.ietf.org] On Behalf Of Igor Bryskin
Sent: 22 July 2005 16:11
To: Mack-Crane, T. Benjamin; Adrian Farrel; Pär Mattsson; Loa Andersson
Cc: ccamp@ops.ietf.org
Subject: Re: Frameformat in a l2cs gmpls rnvironment.

Hi,

I think Ben and Juergen have a point here. There is nothing that could be dynamically provisioned that could not be also provisioned by management. In other words data plane is the King here. We need data plane standard(s) on how we encode a label, whether we need a label stack or not, how the labeled traffic is supposed to be treated, how labeled traffic co-exist with non-label traffic, etc. This is something that not for CCAMP to define. Take for example TDM networks. GMPLS only provides a way to dynamically provision G.707 networks. Hence there is a need in parallel standardization activities in ITU. Only after that we can discuss how all that could be dynamically provisioned, that is the aspects of control plane.

Igor
----- Original Message -----

From: Mack-Crane, T. Benjamin

To: Adrian Farrel ; Pär Mattsson ; Loa Andersson

Cc: ccamp@ops.ietf.org

Sent: Friday, July 22, 2005 10:23 AM

Subject: RE: Frameformat in a l2cs gmpls rnvironment.

Hi,

I think Juergen has raised an important question. How frames are labeled (and the related data plane forwarding behavior) is not defined by the control plane. The control plane serves to provision the data plane, not define it. In the framework draft it is not clear what data plane standards are covered by the stated control plane requirements. Some references should be supplied. In any case, the labeling and forwarding behavior should be defined by these referenced standards, not by GMPLS.

(I am assuming definition of new data plane standards is out of scope for CCAMP.)

Regards,

Ben

From: owner-ccamp@ops.ietf.org [mailto:owner-ccamp@ops.ietf.org] On Behalf Of Adrian Farrel
Sent: Friday, July 22, 2005 8:37 AM
To: Pär Mattsson; Loa Andersson
Cc: ccamp@ops.ietf.org
Subject: Re: Frameformat in a l2cs gmpls rnvironment.

Hi,

It is always refreshing how engineers jump straight to a discussion of the solution :-)

Perhaps we can assume that the framework draft is a good representation of the problem space, and that we are ready to start discussing the solutions.

One (perhaps the only?) significant question to answer is how the frames will be labelled. This question is one we must come to as soon as we are confident that the requirements need to be addressed at all.

As has been pointed out, there are several possibilities and to pick from these we need to understand:

1. Do we need to support explicit label stacking?

   Note that this is not supported in TDM, LSC or FSC.

2. Do we need to be able to control (perhaps through an

   external signaling controller) existing hardware and

   install LSPs through existing networks?

3. Do we need to support existing function simultaneous to

   the support of GMPLS L2 LSPs?

I think that from a chair's perspective I can give some limited guidance.

A. These questions must be raised and answered in the framework I-D

B. The answer to question 3 is "yes". This means that the use of labels

   must not significantly deplete any namespace used to support other

   function.

C. CCAMP is chartered to look at the control of transport networks. This

   includes Metro, but I am unsure about Campus. It does not cover

   signaling to the desktop.

Thanks,

Adrian

----- Original Message -----
From: "Pär Mattsson" <per@defero.se>

To: "Loa Andersson" <loa@pi.se>

Cc: <ccamp@ops.ietf.org>

Sent: Friday, July 22, 2005 11:41 AM

Subject: Re: Frameformat in a l2cs gmpls rnvironment.

> > Per and Dimitri,
> >
> > I would like to come down stronger than that, for me it is
> > a very strong requirement that the same switch can handle
> > both VLANs and GMPLs trafic correctly. I can't dsee how that
> > could be done if using the VLAN tpid to indicate GMPLS
> > traffic.
>
> If you ever want that same switch to handle traffic for a directly
> connected host (not to uncommen) you would want that to use normal
> ethernet macaddress switching. So of course you do not want to have to
> choose between vlan and gmpls, you would want both at the same time.
>
> /per
>
>
> >
> > /Loa
> >
> > Pär Mattsson wrote:
> >>>hi par, one of the possibilities that has been considered to cope with
> >>>this requirement is to use a dedicated TPID for the Ethernet labeled
> >>>frames; this would allow differentiated processing with non-labeled
> >>>framesthanks.
> >>
> >>
> >> That seems to make more sence. If that frame is to be sized like a
> >> 802.1q
> >> frame. There is not that much space left to a label. Or is the demand to
> >> use jumboframes ?
> >> Has there been any discussion on labelstacking, and mainly where to
> >> place
> >> the information?
> >>
> >> Regards.
> >> Per
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
> > --
> > Loa Andersson
> >
> > Principal Networking Architect
> > Acreo AB                           phone: +46 8 632 77 14
> > Isafjordsgatan 22                  mobile: +46 739 81 21 64
> > Kista, Sweden                      email: loa.andersson@acreo.se
> >                                             loa@pi.se
> >
>
>
>
>
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