Re: [idn] Thoughts on nameprep

[Bruce Thomson <bthomson@fm-net.ne.jp>]

No, Macs have only a 10%-15% market share in Japan. But
the Mac's Japanese-input routines are less trouble-prone
than IME, in my opinion.

Also, IME comes standard with Windows2000. It's only older
platforms where people are using 3rd-party Japanese input
software.

Bruce


"J. William Semich" wrote:
> 
> Don't a large number of computer users in Japan (the majority?) use Mac
> computers, which support direct input of the local character set from the
> keyboard, without IME?
> 
> Tech staff here use an iMac running the Japanese version of Mac OS for
> Japanese (multilingual) domain name testing purposes just for that reason.
> 
> Bill Semich
> 
> At 10:43 PM 3/15/01 +0900, Bruce Thomson wrote:
> >I can help out with the Japanese keyboard explanation. When typing
> >in Japanese you have a choice of several keyboard input packages
> >available, of which IME is the most popular. Without IME or equivalent,
> >you would be limited what is on the keyboard itself, which is basically
> >your standard ASCII. With IME, you are able to type a whole range of
> >hiragana, katakana, Kanji, and special symbols, all by typing alphabetics
> >and then converting.
> >
> >The default input mode is hiragana, which lets you type sequences of
> >hiragana
> >by typing the equivalent alphabetics. For example, type r and a to get the
> >single hiragana character pronounced ra. You can then either confirm the
> >hiragana character, add additional hiragana to the sequence, or press
> >the space bar to convert it into something else. It converts it into what
> >it guesses is my most likely choice, and I can press the space bar again
> >to get the next choice. Pressing space a third time gives me a menu with
> >all possible choices.  With "ra", I get 13 menu choices: the original
> >full-width hiragana, 4 Kanji, full-width katakana, half-width katakana,
> >and the alphabetic sequences RA, Ra, and ra, in both full-width and
> >half-width alphabetics. Whichever choice I make, IME remembers it as my
> >preferred choice, bringing it to the top of the list of choices next
> >time I convert the same characters.
> >
> >IME can be quite annoying in its attempts to be intelligent, remembering
> >previous choices which were exceptions, or typed by someone else borrowing
> >my computer, etc. So it's certainly possible for it to encourage mistakes
> >by leading you to input something you didn't intend.
> >
> >At this point user names and passwords are probably without exception
> >limited to ASCII, but depending on what software you use to enter them
> >it might be possible to accidentally type Kanji, kana, or full-width
> >alphanumerics. So people learn to be careful.
> >
> >As to why people still might use double-width numbers (or alphabetics,
> >for that matter), some people seem to feel that they look better
> >when intermixed with Kanji text (which is full width). Personally
> >I don't use them, but some people do. The only reasonable use I have
> >seen for half-width kana recently is on cell phones, because of the
> >limited screen size. These non-standard characters are not used
> >for non-text input such as user names, passwords, credit card
> >numbers, telephone numbers, zip codes, etc.
> >
> >If someone gave me the opportunity to work on the Japanese keyboard spec,
> >I would like to consider trying to wean people off these old characters
> >by refusing to convert to them (this could be a checkbox option). You
> >can always type them if you desperately need them by switching keyboard
> >modes. Currently in addition to the default mode I described above, there
> >are modes for typing katakana, ASCII, full-width alphanumerics, and
> >half-width kana directly without the conversion step. I expect that
> >creators of proportional fonts would then work to make mixtures of
> >alphabetics and Kanji blend more smoothly.
> >
> >Bruce
> >
> >"D. J. Bernstein" wrote:
> >>
> >> Yoshiro YONEYA writes:
> >> > 'intelligent IME'
> >> eel
> >> Could you please explain this in more detail? How does the typical
> >> Japanese keyboard interface work?
> >>
> >> What exactly do you type if you want to connect by FTP to ftp.aol.com
> >> and log in as anonymous with password yone@nic.ad.jp? What would you
> >> expect to type if aol and the username and the password were replaced by
> >> Japanese names?
> >>
> >> Suppose we settle on fast nameprep: it's the keyboard interface's job to
> >> help you type good domain names, so that other programs don't have to
> >> worry about bad domain names. What changes would you make in the
> >> keyboard interface to support this?
> >>
> >> > Half-width kana will be obsolete
> >>
> >> So, if we take the slow nameprep approach, then in twenty years we'll
> >> have a bunch of networking programs with the useless skill of converting
> >> half-width kana to full-width kana. Right?
> >>
> >> As for numbers, Bruce seemed to say that most applications expect ASCII
> >> digits, and that double-width numbers won't work. If that's correct, why
> >> is anybody using double-width numbers?
> >>
> >> ---Dan
> >
> >