Re: [idn] Report from the ACE design team

["Soobok Lee" <lsb@postel.co.kr>]

Compared with AMC-W and LDUDE,  
bare DUDE-02 seems to produce  roughly 20% longer ACE labels
for average-length (6 hangul syllables)  Hangul domain.

Shorter ACE labels benefits both the computer, network and humans:

 1. save momory resources
     shorter IDN zone file
     save memory space of  intermediate DNS/Web cache servers
     shorter log file for dns/web/mail transactions
     shorter X.509 v3 certificates
     shorter Http cookie cache entries
     shorter  MIME headers for multilingual email address

 2. reduce traffic
    shorter DNS queries
    shorter HTTP host: header value
    shorter SMTP session from to  and rcpt to: tags
    
 3. for humans
    more easy to transcript
    good for administrators to manage leaked ACE labels

    
For extreme cases of resulted ACE labels exceeding 63 octets limit,
we can enumerate several korean website addresses 
registered to kr.yahoo.com with their titles longer than 15
Hangul syllables.

 1. http://www.kyongnam.wo.to/  (19 hangul syllables )
 2. http://www.ilgi.or.kr/   ( 16 hangul )
 3. http://www.homeless.or.kr/ (  18 hangul )
 4. http://www.stims.or.kr/ ( 19 )
 5. http://guitar.zzo.net/ ( 18)
 6. http://home.hanmir.com/~edinfor/ ( 21 )


If you want to get thousands of more such cases, search 
http://kr.dir.yahoo.com/Education/Organizations/
http://kr.dir.yahoo.com/Society_and_Culture/Cultures_and_Groups/Teenagers/Organizations/
http://kr.dir.yahoo.com/Society_and_Culture/Environment_and_Nature/Organizations/
http://kr.dir.yahoo.com/Business_and_Economy/Organizations/Trade_Associations/
and its parent nodes.

Long hangul website names are often composed in these manner:
- (regional name)+(organization category name)  
- (natural sentence without white spaces).

Why do we restrict  these free naming conventions ?

With slight modification to DUDE, we can fullfil these needs.

Soobok Lee.
lsb@postel.co.kr
  


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Kenneth Whistler" <kenw@sybase.com>
To: <idn@ops.ietf.org>
Sent: Wednesday, June 27, 2001 6:15 AM
Subject: Re: [idn] Report from the ACE design team


> ishisone@sra.co.jp wrote:
> 
> > Maurizio Codogno <mau@beatles.cselt.it> wrote:
> > > > The following points are my main concern:
> > > > 
> > > > 1) Is 14-15 character is enough?
> > > >    At least for Japanese domain names, name of a company or an
> > > >    organization is sometimes quite long.
> 
> > 
> > > Could you please give some example of a name of
> > > a Japanese organization with a long string of characters? (actually the
> > > number of characters in Japanese and a rough translation will suffice,
> > > since I cannot read Japanese).
> > 
> > Sure.  I looked around and found two examples.  Both names exceed 15
> > characters and DUDE cannot encode them, but other more space efficient
> > ACEs can.
> > 
> > 1. JPNIC (the registry of .jp domain)
> > JPNIC's official name consists of 25 characters.  Most of the characters
> > are phonograms (Katakana), though.
> > 
> >   U+793E U+56E3 U+6CD5 U+4EBA U+65E5 U+672C U+30CD U+30C3 U+30C8 \
> >   U+30EF U+30FC U+30AF U+30A4 U+30F3 U+30D5 U+30A9 U+30E1 U+30FC \
> >   U+30B7 U+30E7 U+30F3 U+30BB U+30F3 U+30BF U+30FC
> 
> 25 characters long, and would probably be too long for most of the
> other ACE's, too, right?
> 
> > 
> > 2. A helth-insurance organization in Tokyo
> > This name also contains a few phonograms, but most are ideograms.
> > 
> >   U+6771 U+4EAC U+90FD U+60C5 U+5831 U+30B5 U+30FC U+30D3 U+30B9 \
> >   U+7523 U+696D U+5065 U+5EB7 U+4FDD U+967A U+7D44 U+5408
> 
> Tookyooto joohoo saabisu sangyoo kenkoo hooken kumiai
> 
> "Tokyo City Information Service Industrial Health Insurance Association"
> 
> There is, of course, some question whether organizations with such
> long names would be looking to register the complete name as an IDN,
> in any case. I don't know about this particular one, of course, but
> many organizations with very long official names regularly abbreviate
> them for internal and external use, simply because an expression like
> "Tookyooto joohoo saabisu sangyoo kenkoo hooken kumiai" is too much of
> a mouthful for practical use, anyway. And count up, for a typical
> Japanese input method, how many keystrokes it would take to input
> this -- not practical for a domain name on that criterion either.
> 
> Note that the equivalent English:
> 
> Tokyo_City_Information_Service_Industrial_Health_Insurance_Association.jp
> 
> would be 70 characters long and too long for a domain name, too!
> 
> Other comparable English examples:
> 
> American College of Occupational and Environmental Medicine
> 
>    uses: acoem.org
> 
> New York Committee for Occupational Safety and Health
> 
>    uses: nycosh.org
> 
> Metropolitan Safety Council of the Greater New Orleans Area
> 
>    uses: metrosafety.org
> 
> And the exception that proves the rule:
> 
> Partner's Occupational Medical Services Ltd
> 
>    uses: partnersoccupationalmedicalservices.com   (ick!)
> 
> --Ken
> 
> 
>