RE: [idn] Debunking the ACE myth

["Colosi, John" <jcolosi@verisign.com>]

Dan,

	I don't think you addressed Adam's specific assertion that ACE is
not involved in the problem.  I believe his point is that your operating
system will probably use utf-8 on the clipboard to transport the Unicode
data from the browser to the e-mail client.  ACE doesn't seem involved in
the client's failure to send the e-mail.  Can you address his point
specifically?

	In fact, I think ACE is at least responsible for giving the illusion
that the e-mail might succeed.  The behavior of the browser might also be at
fault.  By using only Unicode characters in the mailto address, the browser
has displayed these characters in an unusable form.  Maybe the browser
should elect to display the ACE characters along with the Unicode,
indicating to users that the strings are identical in some context.  This
would allow you to easily cut & paste the address.

	I think you could make an interesting argument here and I'd like to
see it.  The "ACE Myth" conspiracy theory stuff is not very constructive.

-- John

-----Original Message-----
From: D. J. Bernstein [mailto:djb@cr.yp.to]
Sent: Wednesday, July 18, 2001 9:17 PM
To: idn@ops.ietf.org
Subject: Re: [idn] Debunking the ACE myth


Adam has been telling us that UTF-8 IDNs are bad because using them may
cause failures in the short term, i.e., before the software upgrade is
complete. He's been claiming that ACE is better in the short term:

   Suppose I am considering getting an IDN for my domain. With ACE, this
   will make [some displays better, some displays worse] but nothing
   will actually break (mail will get through, web pages will load, etc)

This example shows that he's wrong. Some mail _won't_ get through if he
switches to an ACE IDN before all the software supports ACE.

Adam M. Costello writes:
> I don't see how this is an ACE failure.

You don't see that it's a failure? Or you don't see that the procedure
succeeds if the ACE IDN is replaced by a normal domain name?

Pasting an address from a browser into a mail client is a very common
operation. I do it all the time. I'll be extremely unhappy if it breaks.

> you have no chance of dissuading the ACE supporters

We'll see. I think that the ACE myth has been a big part of the ACE
advertising campaign on this mailing list. I find it interesting that
you're trying to abort the discussion of this example.

---Dan