Re: [idn] call for comments for REORDERING

["James Seng/Personal" <jseng@pobox.org.sg>]

Thanks Ken & Mark for note. I defer to your opinion in this.

-James Seng

----- Original Message -----
From: "Mark Davis" <mark@macchiato.com>
To: "Kenneth Whistler" <kenw@sybase.com>; <jseng@pobox.org.sg>
Cc: <idn@ops.ietf.org>
Sent: Friday, October 19, 2001 12:04 PM
Subject: Re: [idn] call for comments for REORDERING


> Ken is right; collation is *quite* complex. Anyone wanting to see some
of
> what is involved can look at the ICU implementation (which is UCA and
ISO
> 14651 compliant, and open-source):
>
> User Guide:
> http://www-124.ibm.com/icu/userguide/Collate_Intro.html
>
> Internal Design:
>
http://oss.software.ibm.com/cvs/icu/~checkout~/icuhtml/design/collation/
ICU_
> collation_design.htm
> (source files are linked from there)
>
> ICU home:
> http://oss.software.ibm.com/icu/
>
> While the perfomance is good, the code is many, many orders of
magnitude
> more complicated than the current nameprep. It is not appropriate for
IDN.
>
> Mark
>
> —————
>
> Δός μοι ποῦ στῶ, καὶ κινῶ τὴν γῆν — Ἀρχιμήδης
> [http://www.macchiato.com]
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Kenneth Whistler" <kenw@sybase.com>
> To: <jseng@pobox.org.sg>
> Cc: <idn@ops.ietf.org>
> Sent: Thursday, October 18, 2001 8:28 PM
> Subject: Re: [idn] call for comments for REORDERING
>
>
> > James Seng said:
> >
> > > Third, I would really prefer to reference a work from established
expert
> > > group if possible. For example, ISO/IEC JTC1/SC22/WG20 publishes
ISO
> > > 14651 on weighted sorting. I am not sure how ISO 14651 would
perform for
> > > the IDN purpose but I thought it might be worthwhile to examine.
> >
> > As one of the principal authors of ISO 14651, who has also
implemented
> > the synchronized Unicode Technical Standard #10, the Unicode
Collation
> > Algorithm, I can attest that this is a very tricky and complicated
> > area, and the algorithms to do all this correctly are not the kind
> > you can write on the back of a cocktail napkin. It is very complex
> > to get all the details right and to get good-performing algorithms
> > (in speed and in resource usage). It is also very difficult for
> > independent implementations to get themselves all exactly lined
> > up, and even more difficult for independent implementations to
*prove*
> > that they are getting the same results for all data (as opposed to
> > a particular result for one set of data -- which is pretty easy).
> >
> > IDN doesn't need to add this kind of headache to the already
> > complex enough issues of nameprep.
> >
> > >
> > > Whatever the case, we should make a decision quickly on this. Lets
not
> > > drag this further if possible.
> > >
> > > -James Seng
> > >
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > From: "Martin Duerst" <duerst@w3.org>
> >
> > > > So this is a solution in search of a real problem,
> > > > not worth bothering the whole world with additional
> > > > complexity.
> >
> > I heartily concur with Martin's assessment.
> >
> > --Ken Whistler
> >
> >
> >
>