Re: [idn] URL encoding in html page

[John C Klensin <klensin@jck.com>]

>> However user interface design is not part of IETF protocol
>> design.  That
> is
>> why it is not part of this working group's charter.  Rather,
>> this working group has a task of working on a network
>> interchange standard.

Dave,

I said this at least twice, in different contexts, in
Minneapolis.  Let me say it again here, with the understanding
that this is just my opinion and that the above is just your
opinion -- until and unless one of the ADs says something
authoritative:

While the IETF does not design or standardize user interfaces,
it seems to me that discussion about user interfaces and what
functions they do, or do not, require is entirely appropriate.
If we specify a wire ("network interchange") standard that is
intended to provide some functionality, and that functionality
cannot be rationally implemented in a user interface, then the
standard is useless.  Conversely, if a user interface requires
some capability or information that must come from other sources
on the network, and we don't provide that information, we have
produced an equally useless standard.

Your repeated comments along the lines of the above risk our
taking the path that you have sometimes claimed was ITU's big
mistake with X.400 -- ignoring both the installed base of
similar and related applications and usability issues.

I believe that the IETF's WGs need to work these problems in the
way that any decent engineering organization would, and that
involves including and examining _all_ relevant constraints on
the solution space.   

If, for example, it is argued that a particular approach would
cause serious user confusion problems, across a broad range of
languages, that could not be avoided by reasonable
implemenations or designs of UIs, then I think we are obligated
to examine that argument and, if it turns out to be correct, to
look for protocol choices that don't have that property.  While
I don't believe we should change a protocol to benefit one
language while disadvantaging all others, those cases may need
examination too.

Again, none of this means that we should go into the UI design
business.  But ignoring or dismissing discussions of UI issues,
or arguments based on what UIs can or cannot do with the
protocol facilities anticipated, puts us, I think, at serious
risk.

Your opinion may differ, and probably does.  But I suggest it is
improper to try to suppress discussion by making claims about
what IETF does or does not do when those claims are based on
personal opinion or preference.

     john