Re: [idn] Cut&paste discussion

["Soobok Lee" <lsb@postel.co.kr>]

In addition to telnet/ssh/xterm + IDN-ware mutt/pine cases,
 the case of webbrowser + remote IDN-aware webmail services like hotmail.com  comes to my mind.

IN any cases above, copy&paste should be consistent throughout the GUI or operating systems in
the format in which the being-copied application exports the IDN strings to outer worlds.

In summary, as far as i remember in this discussion, the only feasible alternative was 
"export as it is, without ACE conversion". That means ACE forms of IDN can't be the default 
in copy&paste , while the ACE form is the MUST in  most wire protocols.

But, "Export as it is" exposes IDN strings  to various kinds of exceptions, when they
are copied into non-IDN-aware applications or transcoded to/from Unicode at the
edges between OS/GUI paste buffer and applications. Of course, when all applications become 
IDN-aware and begin to use only Unicode without any legacy charset supports, those problem
will disappear. Until then, those problems will annoy implementors and that was why someone
tried to suggest ACE form should be the norm in copy&paste of IDN strings.


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Soobok Lee" <lsb@postel.co.kr>
To: "Erik Nordmark" <Erik.Nordmark@Sun.COM>
Cc: <idn@ops.ietf.org>
Sent: Monday, September 09, 2002 8:31 PM
Subject: Re: [idn] Cut&paste discussion


> 
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Erik Nordmark" <Erik.Nordmark@Sun.COM>
> To: "Soobok Lee" <lsb@postel.co.kr>
> Cc: "Erik Nordmark" <Erik.Nordmark@Sun.COM>; <idn@ops.ietf.org>
> Sent: Monday, September 09, 2002 5:15 PM
> Subject: Re: [idn] Cut&paste discussion
> 
> 
> > > "Is copy&paste implementable consistantly & properly under IDNA?" and "How
> > > to implement IDNA's copy&paste in specific OS platforms?" are different
> > > questions.  Do you agree?
> > 
> > Sure look like different questions to me.
> > 
> > > The former one was discussed, not the latter.
> > 
> > Patrik's and others discussions about cut&paste on MAC vs. the X window system
> > sure seemed like it was touching on the latter question of yours.
> 
> It may have seemed that way if you assume the problem resides only in X-windows system.
> 
> However,even in MAC OSX and MS Windows, you can lauch "telnet(ssh) yourhost.com" and
> launch TTY-based MUA like mutt or pine in it, as in X-windows. Therefore, I think
> IDN strings' copy&paste implementability issues is not GUI issue, but rather
> embedded/layered/tunneled (i don't know better term) application architecture
> issue present in ALL operating systems and GUIs. 
> 
> that is, tty-based applications are presented to end user through 
> purely textual applicaton like telnet,ssh,xterm, and there copy&paste operation
> on specific pattern of 18n strings in the text screen should be special than those
> for any other patterns of strings. That problem exists in all Operating system environments
> ,so   that is not a implementation specific issue, but a implementability issue
> common in all OS and GUIs.
> 
> > 
> > But my question was really whether folks would find benefit in having a
> > separate mailing list for discussing implementation issues with IDNA
> > in general.
> 
> I agree that the latter one should be discussed in other place, while
> the former one is still our issue.
> 
> 
> > 
> >   Erik
>