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Re: Questions on the Draft
I haven't kept up with this but I though X.25 was on the way to extinction. Is
this true? ..and if so I assume the pricing model was a contributing factor?
Regards John
tim clifford wrote:
> i hope you don't mind my tossing these back on the mailing list... comments
> below
>
> Tim Clifford, President and CEO
> Lacuna Network Technologies, Inc.
> 5257 River Road #635
> Bethesda, MD 20816
> office: 703.812.8560 fax 703.812.8571
> mobile: 301.674.0373 email: tjc@lacunanet.net
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Venning, Roger [mailto:Roger.Venning@team.telstra.com]
> > Sent: Friday, June 29, 2001 3:21 AM
> > To: 'tim clifford'
> > Subject: RE: Questions on the Draft
> >
> >
> >
> > Hi Tim,
> >
> > market segmentation is hardly my forte, but I guess that on the
> > whole, flat
> > rate plans appeal more to consumers. I think the key thing is that we are
> > still talking about communication. In the current cellular situation,
> > customers are prepared to pay for voice-minutes effectively. In
> > the future,
> > they will still be prepared for the level of communication
> > offered. I guess
> > the thing is that currently on the Internet, a lot of the information you
> > retrieve really has little value to you.
>
> while I agree with the comments, I think the point is about the difference
> between voice and data. this is likely ground that's been covered many times
> in the past 10-15 years (after all the x.25 community felt like they had the
> market covered ;-) but the context of mobility requires a new review. voice
> has an (dis)advantage of being real time, which drives a charge for use
> model; data is not necessarily real time and with voip/sip/instant msging we
> have yet another category....
>
> >
> > I'm not really certain how many parallels we can make between current
> > wireline Internet service provision (and the associated pricing
> > models), and
> > a future Wireless Internet. The underlying cost structure is fundamentally
> > different - the airwaves are surely a scarce resource one we have a mass
> > market, although admittedly to begin with capacity might not be such a
> > problem.
> ...but imho the discussion about services and charging is critical, I expect
> the current standards may have to evolve significantly to support the
> eventual market demand. the sooner we can work through possible scenarios
> for both services and charging and see the real demand the better/sooner the
> services and technology will happen.
>
> i recall by the way that the x.25 charging models were based on usage, so
> there is precedent for charging data by use. maybe not a great precedent
> since it appears that IP has scaled rather better than x.25.
>
> tc
> >
> > Roger.
> >
> > Roger.
> >
> > -------------------------------------------------------
> > Roger Venning \
> > Technologist \ A new .sig for a new millenium
> > Telstra Research Labs \
> > <roger.venning@team.telstra.com> Phone: +61 3 9253 6295
> >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: tim clifford [SMTP:tjc@lacunanet.net]
> > > Sent: Friday, 29 June 2001 12:13 pm
> > > To: Venning, Roger
> > > Subject: RE: Questions on the Draft
> > >
> > > Roger
> > > it would be interesting to understand a bit more about the
> > characteristics
> > > of the users that are paying the flat rate. some users have more
> > > sensitivity to price than others. of course one sort of "test" will be
> > > about the overall uptake of the service.
> > >
> > > tc
> > >
> > > Tim Clifford, President and CEO
> > > Lacuna Network Technologies, Inc.
> > > 5257 River Road #635
> > > Bethesda, MD 20816
> > > office: 703.812.8560 fax 703.812.8571
> > > mobile: 301.674.0373 email: tjc@lacunanet.net
> > >
> > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > From: owner-more@ops.ietf.org
> > [mailto:owner-more@ops.ietf.org]On Behalf
> > > > Of Venning, Roger
> > > > Sent: Thursday, June 28, 2001 9:30 PM
> > > > To: 'James Kempf'; Chris.Burke@motorola.com; more@ops.ietf.org;
> > > > takeshita@dcl.docomo-usa.com
> > > > Subject: RE: Questions on the Draft
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > > From: James Kempf [mailto:James.Kempf@Sun.COM]
> > > > > Sent: Friday, 29 June 2001 1:23 AM
> > > > > To: Chris.Burke@motorola.com; more@ops.ietf.org;
> > > > > takeshita@dcl.docomo-usa.com
> > > > > Subject: Re: Questions on the Draft
> > > > >
> > > > <snip software quality measurement via defects per kLOC argument>
> > > > > In a similar way, billing based on the number of packets is a simple
> > > > > way to quantify access charges, but it fails to take into account
> > > > > qualitative factors, such as that users (in the US at least) don't
> > > > > like to pay that way and have historically avoided using services
> > > > > that have such models.
> > > > >
> > > > > So if you want to design a service that people want to use, it is
> > > > > probably a good idea not to charge by packet, and instead figure
> > > > > out other ways to make additional money from the basic access.
> > > > >
> > > > > This may be different in Japan and Europe, however.
> > > > >
> > > > > jak
> > > > >
> > > > <snip>
> > > >
> > > > James,
> > > >
> > > > for an example of consumer acceptance of pricing models
> > outside the US:
> > > >
> > > > in Australia, Internet style access is split between pay per hour of
> > > > connected time (dial-in), flat rate (dial in & broadband) & volume
> > > charged
> > > > (broadband, permanent dial-in), and all models are accepted.
> > There has a
> > > > been a bit of a furore in Australia recently on download limits
> > > > specified in
> > > > "acceptable use policy" that is associated with flat-rate
> > > > broadband access.
> > > > As an indication, volume charged fixed connections have tarriffs
> > > generally
> > > > in the vicinity of US$0.10/MB. I have seen a consumer GPRS
> > offering here
> > > > that had a rate of ~US$10/MB for the first 200kB in a session and
> > > ~US$5/MB
> > > > thereafter. Consumers (apart from those focussed on "content piracy")
> > > are
> > > > comfortable with plans that revolve around a flat rate portion
> > > > for eg. 250MB
> > > > free and volume charged thereafter.
> > > >
> > > > Roger.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > --
> > > > Roger Venning - Technologist - Telstra Research Laboratories
> > > >
> > > > For a successful technology, reality must take
> > > > precedence over public relations, for Nature
> > > > cannot be fooled. Richard Feynman
> > > >