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Re: Reply to review comments from Pekka Savola (1 of ?)



On Tue, 24 Feb 2004, George Jones wrote:
> ps>       Protocols that use encryption: SSH, SFTP, SNMPv3, BGP, NTP,
> ps>         Kerberos.
> ps>
> ps>
> ps> ==> This needs some additional warnings, as the MUST requirements
> ps> cannot
> ps> be fulfilled at present without resorting to IPsec.  How do you
> ps> perform
> ps> Secure Logging for example otherwise?
> 
> This is one that's going to take more thought.   You are right about
> logging.   Will come back to this one.

Ok.

> ps> ==> s/use/are able to use/  --- let's not give a false sense of
> ps> security
> ps> that they would automatically yield security.  Also,
> ps> NTP or BGP do not provide encryption, but rather authentication
> ps> and integrity.
> 
> Right.  That was already pointed out.  List of protocols is completly
> gone now, replaced by a citation of the IABs fine new securty
> mechanisms info rfc:
> 
> 04>   Examples.
> 04>
> 04>      See [RFC3631] for a current list of mechanisms that can be used
> 04>      to support secure management.
> 04>
> 04>      Later sections list requirements for supporting in-band
> 04>      management (Section 2.2) and out-of-band management (Section
> 04>      2.3) as well as trade-offs that must be weighed in considering
> 04>      which is appropriate to a given situation.
> 
> I could leave it at that (easiest, citing well thought out and well
> reviewed general advice) or revert to a table  showing protocols
> grouped by class (logging, time, routing) vs requirement
> (confidentiality, integrity, etc.)

The problem with the above statement is that RFC3631 lists "security 
primitives" (in a way) which different protocols-to-be-secured could 
use to achieve the security properties.  This might lead to a 
disconnect which you're probably referring to.  How do we get from the 
list of "ways to add security in a system in general" to "secure 
protocols" ?

> ps> 2.2 In-Band Management Requirements
> ps>
> ps>   This section lists security requirements for devices that are
> ps>   managed
> ps>   In-band.
> ps>
> ps> ==> "are managed", "will be managed" or "can be managed"?  Can the
> ps> user
> ps> know before purchasing a box how it's going to be managed if not
> ps> the last one?
> 
> Hopefully someone knows how the're going to manage a device before
> they purchase it.

Not necessarily, and that might change during the lifetime of the 
device.
 
> Better ?
> 
> 04> This section lists security requirements that support secure in-band
> 04> management.

Yep.

> ps>
> ps>   o  saturation of customer lines or interfaces can make the device
> ps>       unmanageable
> ps>
> ps> ==> this is not balanced, reword e.g. to:
> 
> It wasn't intended to be balanced.   It was intended to list the
> problems of in-band management, not solutions or alternatives.
> Those come elsewhere.
> 
> ps>
> ps>   o  saturation of customer lines or interfaces can make the device
> ps>       unmanageable, unless an out-of-band management has been reserved
> ps>       specifically to avoid this problem.
> 
> Better ?
> 
> 04> unless out-of-band management resources have reserved.</t>

Yep. ("have been reserved" ?)


> ps>   o  Since the same networking code and interfaces are shared for
> ps>       management and customer data, it is not possible to isolate
> ps>       management functions from failures in other areas. (For example,
> ps>       a
> ps>       "magic packet" or buffer overrun that causes the data forwarding
> ps>       portions of a router to crash will also likely make it
> ps>       impossible
> ps>       to manage.  This would not necessarily be the case if the
> ps>       management and data forwarding elements were completely
> ps>       separated)
> ps>
> ps>
> ps>
> ps> ==> this seems so misguided that I would remove it completely or
> ps> reword
> ps> it a LOT.  If you crash a forwarding element with a magic packet, it
> ps> will be unmanageable using out-of-band mechanisms as well.
> 
> Try this:
> 
> 04>   o  Public interfaces used for in-band management may become
> 04>      unavailable due to bugs (e.g. buffer overflows being exploited)
> 04>      while out-of-band interfaces (such as a serial console device)
> 04>      remain available.

better.

> ps> 2.2.1 Use Encryption Algorithms Subject To Open Review
> ps>
> ps> ==> the author has probably mixed the terms "Encryption" and
> ps> "Cryptography", as continuously he keeps referring to mechanisms which
> ps> use e.g. signatures but provide no encryption.  A lot of sections need
> ps> to be re-reviewed.
> 
> Lacking pointers to specific problems, I've done what I can to fix it.
> I most cases this ment s/encryption/cryptography/
> 
> See interim results @
> http://www.port111.com/opsec/draft-jones-opsec-04.txt
> rather than pasting large bits in here.

OK -- I read this through, only quickly, and it seemed 
reasonable.  The for the rest of 2.2.X as well.
 
> ps>
> ps>   Requirement. If encryption is used to provide secure management
> ps>       channels, then it MUST support encryption algorithms that are
> ps>       subject to "open review" as defined in Section 1.8.
> ps>
> ps> ==> This is ambiguous.  It could be read to say, "all encryption
> ps> algorithms subject to open review MUST be supported" while it probably
> ps> tries to say something slightly different.
> 
> 04> 2.2.1 Use Cryptographic Algorithms Subject To Open Review
> 04>
> 04>    Requirement. If cryptography is used to provide secure management
> 04>       functions, then there MUST be an option to use algorithms that
> 04>       are subject to "open review" as defined in Section 1.8 to
> 04>       provide these functions. These SHOULD be used by default. The
> 04>       device MAY optionally support algorithms that are not open to
> 04>       review.

Ok.
 
> > And if not all, what's
> ps> the "mandatory to implement" set of mechanisms so that
> ps> interoperability
> ps> will be ensured?
> 
> This is trying to say that open review is necessary for security, not
> that it is suficient for interoperability.

Ok.

-- 
Pekka Savola                 "You each name yourselves king, yet the
Netcore Oy                    kingdom bleeds."
Systems. Networks. Security. -- George R.R. Martin: A Clash of Kings