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RE: RADEXT WG re-charter



Hi Bernard,

Thanks for the detailed explanation. 

With respect to the key transport item, I don't recall this discussion
on the HOKEY list. I might have missed it.  In any case I don't think
this is the right approach.  Key transport is a general problem that can
be solved with a general solution. 

Joe

>  > What does it mean for a new transport to be backward compatible?
> 
> I think it means that it is possible to write a transport 
> proxy that goes to/from RADIUS as it exists today (e.g. over 
> UDP) and encapsulates it to/from the new transport, with 
> minimal (ideally no) changes to the RADIUS packet.
> 
> > What are we trying to gain by including new transports, 
> especially TCP?
> > Is it just crypto agility or are there other goals as well?  This 
> > seems like a lot of work to gain crypto agility, it would 
> be good to 
> > understand what else we have to gain?
> 
> The contemplated work includes both DTLS/UDP and TLS/TCP
> transports.   The arguments for the former relate primarily to
> security;  the arguments for the later relate to both security
> and transport considerations.   The benefits in both areas
> have been laid out in presentations to the RADEXT WG over the 
> last year and a half.
> 
> Transport issues were examined in detail in the AAA WG, which 
> described AAA requirements (including transport) in
> RFC 2989.   Reliable transport was chosen, as a result of
> concerns over accounting reliability as well as experience 
> with the drawbacks of the undefined transport behavior of 
> RADIUS (discussed in RFC 5080 Section 2.2.1).
> 
> The behavior of AAA over reliable transport was analyzed in 
> RFC 3539, which also develops a transport profile and 
> suggests failover and load balancing algorithms.
> 
> Together, these documents provide a response to RFC 2865 
> Section 2.4, which lays out four reasons why RADIUS uses UDP:
> 
>    1. If the request to a primary Authentication server fails, a
>       secondary server must be queried.
>    2. The timing requirements of this particular protocol are
>       significantly different than TCP provides.
>    3. The stateless nature of this protocol simplifies the use of UDP.
>    4. UDP simplifies the server implementation.
> 
> RFC 3539 provides  for failover and load balancing (1 & 2).
> Since RADIUS was first standardized in the mid 1990s, 
> implementations have grown in sophistication and the 
> underlying hardware has increased by several orders of magnitude
> in performance.   As a result, considerations 3 and 4 have lessened
> in importance.
> 
> > What is the intended status of this work?  Experimental? Standards 
> > track?
> 
> The transport documents are slated for Experimental status 
> (as stated in the charter).
> 
> > Now that we have a separate item for secure transports 
> shouldn't this 
> > explicitly refer to attribute based encryption, message 
> authentication 
> > and key transport?
> 
> The detailed requirements are going to be developed in a 
> separate document.  However, as discussed in the HOKEY WG 
> meeting, the focus of the RADEXT WG will be on providing a 
> generic security solution, including confidentiality, and 
> message integrity/authentication.
> As discussed in the HOKEY WG meeting, key management 
> attributes specific to ERX will be developed in HOKEY WG and 
> will be independent of the specific RADIUS crypto-agility mechanism.
> 

> >> -----Original Message-----
> >> From: owner-radiusext@ops.ietf.org
> >> [mailto:owner-radiusext@ops.ietf.org] On Behalf Of Bernard Aboba
> >> Sent: Tuesday, April 01, 2008 12:41 PM
> >> To: radiusext@ops.ietf.org
> >> Subject: RADEXT WG re-charter
> >>
> >> As we discussed at IETF 71, the RADEXT WG is looking at a 
> re-charter.  
> >> A strawman re-charter proposal is enclosed below.
> >> Once comments from WG participants have been incorporated, we will 
> >> begin a formal WG consensus call on the proposed re-charter by the 
> >> end of the month.
> >>
> >> ==================================
> >>
> >> Description of Working Group:
> >> The RADIUS Extensions Working Group will focus on 
> extensions to the 
> >> RADIUS protocol required to define extensions to the standard 
> >> attribute space as well as to address cryptographic 
> algorithm agility 
> >> and use over new secure transports. In addition, RADEXT 
> will work on 
> >> RADIUS Design Guidelines and define new attributes for particular 
> >> applications of authentication, authorization and 
> accounting such as 
> >> NAS management and local area network (LAN) usage.
> >>
> >> In order to enable interoperation of heterogeneous RADIUS/Diameter 
> >> deployments, all RADEXT WG work items MUST contain a Diameter 
> >> compatibility section, outlining how interoperability with 
> Diameter 
> >> will be maintained.
> >>
> >>
> >> Furthermore, to ensure backward compatibility with existing RADIUS 
> >> implementations, as well as compatibility between RADIUS and 
> >> Diameter, the following restrictions are imposed on extensions 
> >> considered by the RADEXT WG:
> >>
> >>
> >> - All RADIUS work MUST be backward compatible with existing RADIUS 
> >> RFCs, including RFCs 2865-2869, 3162, 3575, 3579, 3580, 4668-4673, 
> >> 4675, 5080, 5090 and 5176.
> >>
> >>
> >> - All RADIUS work MUST be compatible with equivalent facilities in 
> >> Diameter. Where possible, new attributes should be defined so that 
> >> the same attribute can be used in both RADIUS and Diameter without 
> >> translation. In other cases a translation considerations section 
> >> should be included in the specification.
> >>
> >>
> >> Work Items
> >>
> >>
> >> The immediate goals of the RADEXT working group are to address the 
> >> following issues:
> >>
> >>
> >> - RADIUS design guidelines. This document will provide 
> guidelines for 
> >> design of RADIUS attributes. It will specifically consider how 
> >> complex data types may be introduced in a robust manner, 
> maintaining 
> >> backwards compatibility with existing RADIUS RFCs, across all the 
> >> classes of attributes: Standard, Vendor-Specific and SDO-Specific.
> >> In addition, it will review RADIUS data types and associated 
> >> backwards compatibility issues.
> >>
> >> - RADIUS Management authorization. This document will 
> define the use 
> >> of RADIUS for NAS management over IP.
> >>
> >>
> >> -RADIUS attribute space extension. The standard RADIUS attribute 
> >> space is currently being depleted. This document will provide 
> >> additional standard attribute space, while maintaining backward 
> >> compatibility with existing attributes.
> >>
> >>
> >> -RADIUS Cryptographic Algorithm Agility. RADIUS has traditionally 
> >> relied on MD5 for both per-packet integrity and authentication as 
> >> well as attribute confidentiality. Given the increasingly 
> successful 
> >> attacks being mounted against MD5, the ability to support 
> alternative 
> >> algorithms is required. This work item will include 
> documentation of 
> >> RADIUS crypto-agility requirements, as well as development 
> of one or 
> >> more Experimental RFCs providing support for negotiation of 
> >> alternative cryptographic algorithms to protect RADIUS.
> >>
> >>
> >> - IEEE 802 attributes. New attributes have been proposed 
> to support 
> >> IEEE 802 standards for wired and wireless LANs. This work 
> item will 
> >> support authentication, authorization and accounting attributes 
> >> needed by IEEE 802 groups including IEEE 802.1, IEEE 
> 802.11 and IEEE 
> >> 802.16.
> >>
> >>
> >> - New RADIUS transports. New secure transports for RADIUS will be 
> >> developed, including TCP/TLS (RADSEC) and UDP/DTLS.
> >>
> >> - Documentation of Status-Server usage. A document 
> describing usage 
> >> of the Status-Server facility will be developed.
> >>
> >>
> >> Goals and Milestones:
> >> Jun 2008 RADIUS Design Guidelines submitted as a Best Current 
> >> Practice RFC Jun 2008 RADIUS Management Authorization I-D 
> submitted 
> >> as a Proposed Standard RFC Sep 2008 RADIUS Crypto-agility 
> >> Requirements submitted as an Informational RFC Sep 2008 Extended 
> >> Attributes I-D submitted as a Proposed Standard RC Dec 
> 2008 IEEE 802 
> >> Attributes I-D submitted as a Proposed Standard RFC Mar 2009 
> >> Status-Server I-D submitted as a Proposed Standard RFC Mar 2009 
> >> RADSEC draft submitted as an Experimental RFC June 2009 
> RADIUS over 
> >> DTLS I-D submitted as an Experimental RFC June 2009 RADIUS 
> >> Cryptographic Algorithm Agility I-D submitted as an 
> Experimental RFC
> >>
> >>
> > 
> 

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