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Re: Tunneling scenarios and mechanisms evaluation
There is one more TB at
http://tb.consulintel.euro6ix.org
and http://www.6sos.org
Regards,
Jordi
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jeroen Massar" <jeroen@unfix.org>
To: "'Pekka Savola'" <pekkas@netcore.fi>; "'Alain Durand'" <Alain.Durand@Sun.COM>
Cc: <v6ops@ops.ietf.org>
Sent: Saturday, March 13, 2004 2:14 PM
Subject: RE: Tunneling scenarios and mechanisms evaluation
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> Pekka Savola wrote:
>
> <SNIP>
>
> Giving some insight on this as seen from the SixXS project...
> If you think this is marketing hype thing alike skip this message
> there is no commercial thing in the project and it is all on a
> free/goodwill basis with the main target of providing IPv6 deployment.
>
> > > Please elaborate on this point. If your ISP does not help but
> > > a neighboring ISP offer v6 tunnels, what is the problem?
> >
> > The problem is that the neighboring ISP won't offer v6 tunnel to you
> > because you're not his customer.
>
> In general this is actually what we are doing. The red line though
> is that people should provide full contact address information and
> that their endpoint has a latency of less than 100ms.
>
> > There has been very little 6to4 relay deployment. And that's even
> > better for the ISPs to deploy, because the abuse etc. that happens
> > doesn't come from you 2001:f00::/32 address space. The ISPs in
> > general *don't* want to offer their production space address space to
> > every John Doe that comes knocking on their door.
>
> I personally think that that is actually one of the things *against*
> 6to4, it is totally untraceable/debuggable as one never knows where
> packets are going to flow to/from as there just might be one or even
> more hidden 6to4 relays along the route.
>
> Next to that apparently many users *demand* RIR space, they think
> it is cooler or works better. There are even people who are proud
> to have inet6num's ;)
>
> As for abuse, in case of SixXS, it has been at an all time low
> fortunatly and we haven't heared a complaint for quite some while
> (*knock on wood*) but that could be because of the quite strictness
> with which users are accepted and the fact that they know that they
> are out and are kept out of the system when they have commited it.
>
> > Having followed this relay / tunnel deployment for a while, it seems
> > like that offering these kind of services to outsiders is not seen as
> > very interesting thing to do. Sure, there are some who do it in any
> > case, but more often than not, they're rather far away (and to
> > optimize that, a "broker discovery" mechanism would not hurt) because
> > they're so scarce.
>
> The 'discovery' mechanism we use for the SixXS project is quite simple
> though absolutely not automated: users signs up through the website
> and gives it's details, thus we know his address+country + IP, then
> after being approved they can request a tunnel, again we get an IP.
> Then the system 'asks' the POPs who is willing to serve that IP.
> The POPs that want to serve the user then display them selves and
> the user can select it, again a manual approval based on lowest
> latency/least hops and some other criteria. The approvals are
> web or cli based thus admins only select from some default answers.
>
> > If Internet was still this co-operative, non-profit environment, this
> > kind of "open for all" tunnel broker model would be very efficient..
> > but this is not the case, unfortunately..
>
> SixXS currently has 11 POPs across europe and for the exception of
> two of those they are all open and providing IPv6 to quite a number
> of users who seem to be very happy about the service, you only
> hear them complain when it breaks, which happens only about once
> a year when there is some odd hardware failure. Generally a POP
> only serves the users of that country, unless it is the closest
> POP for a user where there are no POPs in the country.
>
> Or in numbers: (http://www.sixxs.net/misc/usage/)
> The 1747 users span 44 countries.
> The 1649 tunnels span 35 countries.
> Currently there are 923 subnet delegations over the tunnels.
> In the these numbers deleted and disabled tunnels are not counted.
>
> I do have to add that we are apparently in quite a unique
> situation as as far as I know of there are not that many
> public Tunnel Brokers in the US/Asian parts of the world.
>
> First 27 pages of a google on "tunnel broker", sorted on
> region and order of appearance in google:
>
> US:
> 1 Hurricane (http://ipv6.he.net)
> 2 Freenet6 (http://www.freenet6.net)
>
> Europe:
> - - BT Exact (http://tb.ipv6.btexact.com)
> - - Dolphins (http://tunnelbroker.as8758.net)
> - - XS26 (http://www.xs26.net)
> - - ngNet.it (http://tb.ngnet.it)
> - - Estpak (http://www.ipv6.estpak.ee)
> - - Euro6ix (http://www.euro6ix.org:8080/tb/)
> - - FCCN/IPv6-TF.pt (http://ipv6-tf.com.pt/tunnel/)
> - - SixXS (http://www.sixxs.net)
> - - Berkom (http://fix.ipv6.berkom.de/cgi-bin/tb.pl)
> - - Netgroup.dk (http://noodle.ngdc.net/~hroi/tb/)
> - - Coredumps (http://tb.coredumps.org/)
>
> Asia/Australia:
> - - Manis (Beta; http://tbroker.manis.net.my)
> - - SingNet (http://tunnel-broker.singnet.com.sg)
> - - AARNet (http://broker.aarnet.edu.au)
> - - SJTU.edu.cn (http://tb.sjtu.edu.cn/)
> - - ASCC (http://tb.ipv6.ascc.net/)
> - - NGIX (http://tb.ngix.ne.kr/cgi-bin/tb.pl)
>
> 19 and there are probably a couple of others, as to
> how and if they work and how stable they are that is
> up to their respective users. It might be interresting
> to know how many active/used tunnels are being used
> around the globe though as that might indicate a bit
> if there is a demand and how it could be fulfilled.
> Statistics on how these TB's are used could also prove
> interresting. Policies of these brokers might differ
> btw to be open or closed or they only might serve to
> a certain region and have other regulations in hand.
> Next to that there are bound to be private TB's which
> are not to be found in google.
>
> Greets,
> Jeroen
>
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