Rémi Després wrote:
Jeff McAdams - le (m/j/a) 3/26/09 4:34 AM:If ISPs don't care enough to support, or even have an inkling of IPv6, they're also not going to deploy anything like 6RD (though I admit I'm just picking up on the 6RD conversation...but if it requires ISPs to deploy something, its basically dead in the water for a long time still).
When you read draft-despres-6rd-02, you will see that Free, the second largest ISP in France, with millions os DSL customers, deployed 6rd in 5 weeks (6rd stands for IPv6 Rapid Deployment.)
And that's great for them. Seriously, I applaud them for that. But my comment was about ISPs that just flat-out don't care. At all. In the slightest. And sadly, this is a significant fraction of the consumer ISPs.
Free, in France, clearly cares about IPv6 and wants to deploy it in the most reliable and effective way possible. Again, I applaud that wholeheartedly. Let me know when Windstream, here in the US responds to questions about IPv6 with anything other than, "Have you rebooted your computer and DSL modem?"
Earlier in the thread, there was discussion of taking away anycast 6to4 gateways. That's the only thing that I'm against, here. If you and others want to deploy 6RD, fantastic, more power to you. If Windstream deploys 6RD, I'll try to take advantage of it as well...I'm definitely not holding my breath that they will, though.
In the meantime, without 6to4 anycast relays, my only other option for IPv6 connectivity is harder-to-manage-and-configure tunnel broker connections. Realistically, removing 6to4 anycast relays cuts me off from the IPv6 Internet.
I don't have any problem with 6RD as an additional transition mechanism...I'm not sure its worth the effort, but if people want to go down that path, then that's their choice...but please don't take away 6to4 anycast gateway or I, and several households that I work with, go away from the IPv6 Internet.
Taking them away is not needed. It's only that using them without precautions to reach native IPv6 servers will lead to customer frustration with, at least sometimes, poor quality IPv6 experience, something to be avoided.
I haven't experienced any significant negative behaviors from 6to4 anycast relays. I know that its possible, and troubleshooting that case is hard, very hard even. Its uncommon enough, in my experience at least, that 6to4 is a reasonable, if not perfect, transition mechanism for use on an ISP that just is utterly clueless that the Internet is anything more than HTTP on port 80 and 443 (as far as I know, Windstream's email infrastructure is webmail only...*sheesh*)
All I'm asking for is to not deprecate 6to4 anycast relays as part of 6RD. Using 6RD looks like (after a quick perusal of the draft...certainly don't qualify as an expert on it) a reasonable improvement as a transition mechanism, at least in networks where the ISP wishes to support IPv6 access. Just don't forget about us poor folks on the truly clueless ISPs that want to help push the IPv6 adoption cause forward.
-- Jeff McAdams jeffm@iglou.com