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Re: wg list discipline

Thomas Narten wrote:

Erik Guttman <Erik.Guttman@sun.com> writes:

I had to write Keith 3 separate emails in the past couple days as a
result of his overheating on the list.  If I have to go further than
that, what is the procedure for formally warning a WG participant that
they have to either shape up or get excluded from posting?  If he
persists, how can I kick him off?

Dealing with Keith (and folk like him) on zeroconf is definitely a
problem. His ability to post faster than normal folk can read is in
fact a DOS attack. As you know, other people have said as much
privately and it makes following the mailing list daunting and is
keeping folk from participating. I count something like 120 messages
in the last two days on the zeroconf list. No one can reasonably be
expected to keep up with this sort of traffic.
It is worse than simply jamming. It is possible to tune out a kid
who is yammering for attention. Keith has succeeded in

- insulting a large number of participants to the extent they do
not want to participate in any IETF forum in the future. (The
IETF is where you have to put up with such behavior, so...)

- convincing many that he has a deathgrip on WG efforts simply by
evoking arguments of IETF scope, RFC 2026, etc.

- arguing so rhetorically that he enflames even serious contributors

- mixing real arguments with rhetoric to the extent that it is very
difficult to tease apart what he is really saying (noise which one
cannot tune out!) Example: he tries to take apart *every* statement
of someone he does not agree with. The argument quality varies from
explitives to detailed solid reasoning. How does one respond to
this?

- ignoring all WG chair demands for decent behavior and moderation
in number of posts.

I do not put up with folks insulting each other on lists I moderate.
Eventually, either Keith is going to have to behave himself, or be disciplined, or we need to create rules so as to be able to discipline him, or else the IETF will have fewer participants - myself included.

I want a balance between RFC 3184, section 2.1 and 2.2 and the real need we have for participation in our discussion. Kicking someone off the list should be a last resort, but it should be an open option. Otherwise folks like Keith will simply continue to ignore WG chairs.

Erik