I think that the underlying problem here is lack of respect. Frankly I don't much care about the technical issues someone is putting forward when they are behaving like a shouting head from a sunday talk show. While Prof Bernsteins posts and general behaviour shows a total lack of respect for others I don't think the problem is unique to members of the crazy gang. One of the issues I have with the IETF generally is that the feedback I frequently get back on ideas is 'if you understood the problem you would know why your proposal is stupid', followed by a blank refusal to cite specifics. This is an argument strategy that will be familliar to the readers of Joseph Heller. I am not talking about random bar room conversations here, I am talking about longstanding IESG and IAB members. If I get treated that way after ten years of involvement with network protocols, how does the graduate student who comes to her first IETF get treated? The point is that this type of behaviour is comming from the top down. Phill
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