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Re: ason-routing-reqts: issue 2 architecture



But this is just Forwarding Adjacencies, link bundles and logical nodes, isn't it?
 
So let's state the requirement and move on.
 
   A collection of links and nodes such as a subnetwork or RA must
   be able to represent itself to the wider network as a single
   logical entity with only its external links visible to the
   topology database.
 
Agreed?
 
Adrian
 
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jonathan Sadler" <jonathan.sadler@tellabs.com>
To: "Adrian Farrel" <adrian@olddog.co.uk>
Cc: "Don Fedyk" <dwfedyk@nortelnetworks.com>; <Dimitri.Papadimitriou@alcatel.be>; "Ong, Lyndon" <LyOng@Ciena.com>; "Brungard, Deborah A, ALABS" <dbrungard@att.com>; <ccamp@ops.ietf.org>
Sent: Tuesday, March 16, 2004 10:08 PM
Subject: Re: ason-routing-reqts: issue 2 architecture

> Adrian -
>
> Yes, however it isn't limited to what you have in the picture.  Take the
> following picture:
>
> Logical
> Topology           +-++
>            --------+T1+--------
>                    +--+
>
> Physical
> Realization
>
>           ---------------   ----   ----
>          |R1             | |R2  | |R3  |
>          | +-----------+ | |+--+| |+--+|
>          | |L1         | | ||L2|| ||L3||
>          | +-----------+ | |+--+| |+--+|
>          | :     :     : | | :  | | :  |
>           -+-----+-----+-   -+--  | :  |
>  Control   :     :     :     :    | :  |
>  ----------+-----+-----+-----+----+-+--+-------
>  Data      :     :     :     :    | :  |
>           -+     :     +-    :    | +- |
>    ------+P1+---------+P3+--------+|P5|+----
>           --     :    /--\   :    | -- |
>              \  -+-  /    \  +-  / ----
>               \|P2 |/      \|P4|/
>                 ---          --
>
>
> L1, L2, and L3 are aware of the topology of P1-P5, and therefore can
> progress a signalling request presented to L1 through the nodes, but are
> not sharing it with the outside world.  The only topology seen is T1.
> The reason for doing this could be due to policy (hiding) or
> scalability.  (See draft-ietf-ipo-carrier-requirements for more
> explanation on why this is good)
>
> Note here that the Logical topology being advertized (characterized by
> Tn) is different from the control plane realization (Ln) as well as the
> data plane realization (Pn).  This is possible in the ASON architecure,
> as there is no limitation in how a function is realized.
>
> In this case, you wouldn't be able to have separate Router IDs for each
> Pn, as the single T1 shown above must use the same Router ID for the
> link endpoint names in order make only a single node appear in the
> topology.  However, since the resource information for the link
> ingressing at P1 as well as the link egressing at P5 are in R1 and R3,
> it is problematic to have a single Router ID.
>
> Jonathan Sadler
>
> Adrian Farrel wrote:
>
> > All,Does the following picture capture what we want to
> > achieve?               ------------------     ------
> > |R1                |   |R2    |            |  --    --    --  |   |
> > --  |    ------            | |L1|  |L2|  |L3| |   | |L4| |   |R3
> > |            |  --    --    --  |   |  --  |   |  --  |            |
> > :     :     :  |   |   :  |   | |L5| |Control
> > ---+-----+-----+--     ---+--    |  --  |Plane           :     :
> > :          :      |   :
> > |----------------+-----+-----+----------+------+---+--+-Data
> > :     :     :          :      |   :  |Plane          --     :
> > --         --      |  --  |
> > ----|P1|--------|P3|-------|P4|-----+-|P5|-+-               -- \   :
> > / --         --      |  --  |                   \ --
> > /                     |      |
> > |P2|                       ------                     -- Pn is a
> > physical (bearer/data/transport plane) node.Rn is a control plane
> > "router"Ln is a logical control plane entity that manages a single
> > physical node. Thus:R3 represents an LSR with all components
> > collocated.R2 shows how the "router" component may be disjoint from
> > the switchR1 shows how a single "router" may manage multiple switches
> > If you can confirm this generalisation, then we can show (or fail to
> > show)A. That this is a requirementB. That this can be achieved using
> > existing protocols  Cheers,Adrian. PS. Those not familiar with GSMP
> > may want to take a quick peak. ----- Original Message -----From: "Don
> > Fedyk" <
dwfedyk@nortelnetworks.com>To:
> > <
Dimitri.Papadimitriou@alcatel.be>; "Ong, Lyndon" <LyOng@Ciena.com>Cc:
> > "Adrian Farrel" <
adrian@olddog.co.uk>; "Brungard, Deborah A, ALABS"
> > <
dbrungard@att.com>; <ccamp@ops.ietf.org>Sent: Tuesday, March 16, 2004
> > 7:34 PMSubject: RE: ason-routing-reqts: issue 2 architecture > Dimitri
> >
> > >
> > > If you are saying the real or logical node id that is associated
> > with the
> > > Data (bearer) plane should be unique? I would say yes.
> > >
> > > If you are saying could it be IP address format? I would say yes.
> > (Note the
> > > link identifiers in IP address format are unique only with respect
> > to the
> > > node id).
> > >
> > > But if you say Should it then follow each piece of equipment has
> > knowledge
> > > of this IP address format that is assigned to it? I would say no
> > because
> > > there is equipment that won't have this for some time. (A
> > requirement I
> > > understand from ASON).
> > >
> > > So what I believe you are left with is some bearer equipment which
> > has TE
> > > resources (a node Identifier (non-IP) and link identifiers
> > (non-IP)). This
> > > equipment is known by its native identifiers to the entity in the
> > control
> > > plane which can assign: IP format identifiers to the equipment
> > (through some
> > > means) and an unique node identifier. This can then be advertised on
> > its
> > > behalf as a GMPLS compatible TE LSA.
> > >
> > > This does create some challenges but in reality I think many devices
> > are
> > > known by more than one name. (Look at VoIP, devices they have 2
> > identifiers
> > > E.164 and IP. I personally never use my IP address to make a VoIP
> > phone call
> > > but I know that it is routed to a IP address along the way that is
> > hidden
> > > from me.)
> > >
> > > I tend to agree with Lyndon that Topology is derived from TE
> > advertisements.
> > > I don't understand what you could do without a unique logical node
> > > associated with the TE links.
> > >
> > > Don
> > >
> > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > From:
Dimitri.Papadimitriou@alcatel.be
> > > > [mailto:Dimitri.Papadimitriou@alcatel.be]
> > > > Sent: Tuesday, March 16, 2004 1:48 PM
> > > > To: Ong, Lyndon
> > > > Cc: Fedyk, Don [BL60:1A00:EXCH]; Adrian Farrel; Brungard,
> > > > Deborah A, ALABS;
ccamp@ops.ietf.org
> > > > Subject: Re: ason-routing-reqts: issue 2 architecture
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > the problem is not an issue of being cleaner, the issue
> > > > is once the following assumption is taken (which is the
> > > > logical consequence of rfc 3630 in the gmpls context)
> > > >
> > > > "a stable IP address of the control plane entity that
> > > > manages the resources on behalf of the data plane
> > > > entity whose resources are being advertised."
> > > >
> > > > can we assume that wrt to this stable IP address the
> > > > resource identification will be unique (throughout
> > > > these multiple data plane entities) and in this case
> > > > it holds (no additional level of indirection needed),
> > > > or not (i.e. you will find duplicated id space values
> > > > and then an additional level of indirection is needed)
> > > >
> > > > the problem of the design team was not define the issue
> > > > but to find enough arguments wrt to the operational
> > > > practices (ie user community) in order to close this
> > > >
> > > > thanks,
> > > > - dimitri.
> > > >
> > > > Ong, Lyndon wrote:
> > > > > I had the same assumption as Don, that the RFC treats the
> > > > advertising
> > > > > router and the bearer plane node as the same. It would be
> > > > cleaner if
> > > > > there was also a bearer plane node identifier in the
> > advertisement.
> > > > >
> > > > > Cheers,
> > > > >
> > > > > Lyndon
> > > > >
> > > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > > From: Don Fedyk [mailto:dwfedyk@nortelnetworks.com]
> > > > > Sent: Tuesday, March 16, 2004 9:56 AM
> > > > > To: Adrian Farrel; Brungard, Deborah A, ALABS;
> >
ccamp@ops.ietf.org
> > > > > Subject: RE: ason-routing-reqts: issue 2 architecture
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Hi Adrian
> > > > >
> > > > > See Comments Below,
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >>-----Original Message-----
> > > > >>From: Adrian Farrel [mailto:adrian@olddog.co.uk]
> > > > >>Sent: Monday, March 15, 2004 4:18 PM
> > > > >>To: Brungard, Deborah A, ALABS;
ccamp@ops.ietf.org
> > > > >>Subject: Re: ason-routing-reqts: issue 2 architecture
> > > > >>
> > > > >>
> > > > >>I assume that the desire is to have one control plane entity
> > > > >>mange multiple data plane entities (not to have one data
> > > > >>plane entity managed by multiple control plane entities).
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > I agree.
> > > > >
> > > > >>I believe. in this context, it might be helpful to separate
> > > > >>the signaling function (and the associated routing function
> > > > >>for the delivery of the signaling messages) from the TE
> > > > >>advertisement routing function. Since we are discussing the
> > > > >>routing requirements (this is the routing DT) can I assume
> > > > >>that the discussion is limited to the TE advertisement
> > > > >>routing function, with the aim to have one control plane
> > > > >>entity advertise the resources on behalf of multiple data
> > > > >>plane entities.
> > > > >>
> > > > >>If all of the above, why could you not simply do this using
> > > > >>RFC3630? The only wrinkle might be that the Router Address
> > > > >>TLV is described as carrying "a stable IP address of the
> > > > >>advertising router". Clearly, this needs to be interpreted as
> > > > >>"a stable IP address of the control plane entity that manages
> > > > >>the resources on behalf of the data plane entity whose
> > > > >>resources are being advertised."
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Interesting. I thought that you need a logical node id for
> > > > the bearer
> > > > > plane as well even though you are only advertising from a single
> >
> > > > > entity.  In other words, is it not the desire to have the TE
> > > > > advertisements contain the same information regardless of
> > whether
> > > > > there is a one to one correspondence between the nodes in
> > > > control and
> > > > > the data plane or there is a one to many relationship? My
> > > > > interpretation of RFC3630 is that it assumes the
> > > > advertising router is
> > > > > the same as the logical node in the bearer plane that owns the
> > > > > resources. If a logical node id was added to the
> > > > advertisement for the
> > > > > node terminating the resources when the advertising router
> > > > was not the
> > > > > bearer node that owned the resources it would be clearer to me.
> > > > >
> > > > > Don
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >>Am I missing something?
> > > > >>
> > > > >>Adrian
> > > > >>
> > > > >>----- Original Message -----
> > > > >>From: "Brungard, Deborah A, ALABS" <
dbrungard@att.com>
> > > > >>To: <
ccamp@ops.ietf.org>
> > > > >>Sent: Monday, March 15, 2004 7:43 PM
> > > > >>Subject: ason-routing-reqts: issue 2 architecture
> > > > >>
> > > > >>
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
ftp://ftp.isi.edu/internet-drafts/draft-ietf->
> > ccamp-gmpls-ason-routing-
> > > > > reqts-
> > > > > 02.txt
> > > > >
> > > > > The second DT issue is on the physical architecture which can be
> >
> > > > > supported by GMPLS (from the draft):
> > > > >
> > > > > ASON does not restrict the architecture choices used, either a
> > > > > co-located architecture or a physically separated
> > > > architecture may be
> > > > > used. Some members of the Design Team are concerned that GMPLS's
> >
> > > > > concept of the LSR requires a 1-to-1 relationship between the
> > > > > transport plane entity and the control plane entity (Router).
> > They
> > > > > invite CCAMP input on GMPLS capabilities to support multiple
> > > > > architectures i.e. how routing protocols would identify the
> > > > transport
> > > > > node ID vs. the router or routing controller ID when
> > > > scoping Link IDs
> > > > > in a link advertisement. Deborah
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > > --
> > > > Papadimitriou Dimitri
> > > > E-mail :
dimitri.papadimitriou@alcatel.be
> > > > E-mail : dpapadimitriou@psg.com
> > > > Webpage: http://psg.com/~dpapadimitriou/
> > > > Address: Fr. Wellesplein 1, B-2018 Antwerpen, Belgium
> > > > Phone  : +32 3 240-8491
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
>
>
>
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