Re: [idn] iDNS re-chartering proposal, take 2

[Martin Duerst <duerst@w3.org>]

At 20:28 01/10/27 -0700, Dave Crocker wrote:
>At 08:16 PM 10/27/2001, Martin Duerst wrote:
>>At 12:09 01/10/27 -0700, Dave Crocker wrote:
>>>then encode the characters, to permit their transmission and storage 
>>>within existing DNS mechanisms.  Hence this enhancement to the DNS 
>>>involves only end-user software.  In particular software that needs to 
>>>be changed is restricted to:  Human DNS input and output modules.
>>
>>Please be careful here. Assume somebody has software that allows to
>>find all domain names with the string 'FOO' in it, where 'FOO' isn't
>>necessarily a full label. Now assume this software should work with
>>idns, too. Can we do that by just changing the input module
>>(e.g. we just encoded 'FOO' as ace? We can't.
>
>actually, I think we can.  the software doing the searching might not be a 
>human, but it's place in the overall DNS system is the same place as human 
>users.  That is, in the user agent, not the DNS infrastructure.

User agent is a wide term, and may be okay. Human input/output
is quite different, and inappropriate. As a human being I don't
like to be thrown into the same pot as some software. So can
we please change that to 'DNS input and output modules'?


>>Also, assume that a protocol specifies that domain names be in
>>UTF-8 (or something else), or that a program decides to use
>>Unicode internally.
>
>I think you are confusing what goes on inside a random user program with 
>what goes on inside the DNS.

No, I don't. I just wanted to make sure that the charter doesn't
give the impression that all software has to use ACE throughout
because conversion happens on 'Human input/output'.


>>>    [[[  Question:  Why must we discuss writing order at all?  /Dave   ]]]
>>
>>The problem Eric has mentioned is one problem, but actually the easier
>>one. The sequence of labels is something anyone can get used to.
>
>If the DNS software CREATED strings, then making sure characters were in 
>the correct order would make sense.
>
>However the strings are created outside of DNS.  The only thing the DNS 
>system must do is PRESERVE that order.

DNS names appear on paper and displays. If we are not sure that
the same internal string of characters will lead to the same display
and vice versa, then all our work on idn will just lead to a lot of
confusion. It may look as if just extending the set of characters
won't change anything here, but at least for Arabic and Hebrew,
that's not the case.


>>>The Action Item(s) for the Working Group are:
>>
>>What's the difference between
>>
>>"Working Group action items are:" and
>>"The Action Item(s) for the Working Group are:"
>
>Fewer characters...

I was asking something different, sorry. Why are there
two subtitles in your charter listing action items for
the WG, one of them with two action items, and one with
four?


>>>Goal & Milestone:
>>>
>>>Nov 2001        Draft of architecture relating input methods, namepreps
>>>                 and zonefiles
>>>Nov 2001        Draft of ACE specification
>>>Nov 2001        Draft of DNS identifier normalization specification
>>>Nov 2001        Draft of DNS character set enhancement specification
>>
>>'Character set enhancement' is a very weird term. This is the
>>IDNA spec, isn't it? Using the word 'architecture' in a generic
>>name would be better, I guess.
>
>Glad to use other language.  Please suggest a term.  I simply used what 
>was already in the previous draft.

Why not just call it 'DNS internationalization architecture specification'?

Regards,   Martin.