Re: Host-based may be the way to go, but network controls areneccessary

[Iljitsch van Beijnum <iljitsch@muada.com>]

[I'll reply to your other message later, if not moot by then; yes, v6wg,
not ops, difference was not apparent to the untrained eye...]

On Thu, 21 Nov 2002, Kurt Erik Lindqvist wrote:

> Uhm, I would argue that pre-CIDR the network didn't know the
> shortest-path, not the other way around?

I'm not saying pre-CIDR was the garden of eden, but today's aggreagation
hides information that could have been used for more optimal routing. I
think the benefit was worth it, but this is a clear example of current
practice falling outside the architectural assumptions, if not
foundations.

> > the network is open to constant disruption (DDoS et al.). But IPv6 is
> > still just IPv4 with bigger addresses.

> Agree. However, addressspace and preventing DDOS are two completely
> different issues. We actually already today have both the tools and the
> knowledge to prevent many of the DDOS attacks, still people are not
> doing it. This has nothing to do with the architecture.

You can hang a motor on a sailboat, but that only makes it a sailboat
with a motor, not a motorboat. If you have a sailboat and you need a
motor, this makes sense. When designing a new boat, not so much.

> > IPv6 is a reasonably good way to get packets across links. Routing and
> > layer 4 and up don't do what we need them to do so an architectural
> > overhaul is certainly in order.

> The above said, I do agree that there are things in the architecture
> that we need to change. I just don't think they are IPv6 specific.

Agree on the non-specific, disagree on the "change". We've done too much
changing already. I think we should forget the current protocols for a
while, and design a new architecture that can do what people are
actually trying to accomplish with current tools. If we have a good,
clean architecture, we can see how we can fit current protocols it, see
where we need to keep using hacks simply because they work, and build
whatever we don't have now but want. This part, we get to do right from
the start.

I'm not worried this is a waste of time. If the architecture is really
in dire need of an overhaul like we're saying here and elsewhere, a
better one will attract people that are trying to solve all kinds of
problems. A motorboat doesn't need to have a very big motor to pass a
sailboat.

Iljitsch