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RE: Scope of NIM

Title: RE: Scope of NIM
Let me clarify. If we embrace all the OO concepts inheritance, full associations (including encapsulation), and methods, we already know that there is a great deal of skeptcism about how easily some of these capabilities can be mapped to data centric protocols such as SNMP. However, these concepts do fit in rather nicely with other technologies such as CORBA, which is actively being used to manage certain types of networked environments. Hence, while the applicable technologies for the full suite of OO concepts is greater, the risk of it being embraced and used by the IETF is also greater because the mapping challenges are greater, particularly for those technologies in which the IETF has a vested interest (SNMP, COPS, LDAP, and AAA). Do I believe that it is infeasible to engage in this work? No. However, we better line up a few users for it or it will be a n+1 activity.
In contrast, supporting some of the OO concepts such as inhertiance and encapsulation as an increment to SMI moves the IETF in the direction of OO. As I understand it, this is actively being worked on. If this is the case, then the question for an activity that starts from here is, can we use these tools to reduce the number of data models being developed across the protocols.
-----Original Message-----
From: Andrea Westerinen [mailto:andreaw@cisco.com]
Sent: Tuesday, August 22, 2000 5:56 PM
To: Weiss, Walter; remoore@us.ibm.com
Cc: nim@ops.ietf.org
Subject: RE: Scope of NIM

Walter, I strongly object to your "positions" in this paragraph ...
<WW> ... Specifically, if we say that this work is applicable to only data structures we don't really leverage all the OO concepts, but the results will be readily applicable to current IETF protocols such as SNMP, COPS, and LDAP. In contrast, if we broaden the scope to include the remaining OO concepts, we expand the applicability beyond the IETF and data oriented protocols. The price for this expanded scope is greater challanges in proving the value to IETF protocols (more complex mappings and algorithmic mappings), and a lower probability of success as gauged by interest amoung the IETF participants at the BOF. We have to ask the question: do we want to shoot for the ideal risking that it will never be used (n+1), or do we want to shoot for more consistency with what we have risking obsolesence when(if) non-data driven management interfaces become the rage in the IETF.
OO approaches and the techniques of information modeling have NOTHING to do with "applicability beyond the IETF and data oriented protocols".  The scope of coverage of an information model is unrelated to the abstraction and modeling techniques and concepts that are used.  You could easily restrict the focus of a modeling effort to the IETF's data oriented protocols and management efforts.  In fact, you would probably want to restrict things further and prioritize all the possible protocols and management efforts.  
Of course, the right answer to your question is do what is applicable to the IETF and don't "boil the ocean."  However, you ask the wrong question by saying data structures or OO concepts.  I am currently working on several OO models that are "readily applicable" to current IETF protocols and efforts.