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RE: comments on draft-adrangi-radius-bandwidth-capability-00.txt



Hello Jari,
Thanks so much for your thorough review and detailed/excellent comments
- as always.  I will update the draft accordingly.

- Yes, the attributes need to work with Diameter. The draft was
submitted before our diameter discussion in the last IETF!! 

- The key difference between pull and push models is in the
advertisement.  In the pull model, the HSN receives the current
bandwidth capabilities (in the Advertisement) before doing the
Selection.  

- On attributes format/syntax, we have the flexibility to do the right
thing -- WFA is looking for IETF for the most appropriate syntax.  I
don't want to open subtype can-of-worms here either!  I am okay with
your proposal.

BR,
Farid

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Jari Arkko [mailto:jari.arkko@piuha.net] 
> Sent: Wednesday, June 02, 2004 4:30 AM
> To: 'radiusext@ops.ietf.org'; Adrangi, Farid
> Subject: comments on draft-adrangi-radius-bandwidth-capability-00.txt
> 
> 
> 
> Hi Farid,
> 
> Overall, I think the basic functionality suggested
> in this draft is valid and useful. Some work remains,
> however. The attributes need to work with Diameter,
> too, so when you mention a Radius message you should
> also list the equivalent Diameter message. There's
> a bunch of editorial issues and some suggested
> simplifications below too. I'm not sure if the
> pull model is useful, and the 12 attributes defined
> should be compressed to 8. Finally, I would use
> a different format in the attribute.
> 
> In more detail:
> 
> Substantial:
> ============
> 
> >      The attribute is described for RADIUS [1].
> 
> As I have stated before, I'd like attributes to be
> defined generally. Suggested rewrite: The attribute
> is described for RADIUS, but works as is also in
> Diameter [RFC 3588], and through the translation
> rules defined in [Diameter NASREQ]."
> 
> However, this probably means that the attribute format 
> corresponds to some known Diameter type. More on this later.
> 
> >         The ingress minimum bandwidth parameter indicates 
> the average 
> >         minimum ingress data rate that an AN will try to 
> provide to an 
> >         authorized user.  This value is a target, rather than a 
> >         guarantee.
> 
> I have a feeling that "average minimum" is not well defined. 
> What does that mean? I guess it does not mean guaranteed 
> minimum peak rate. If not, what does it mean?
> 
> How about "... indicates the minimum peak rate that the 
> authorized user should get. However, this value is a target 
> and not a guarantee."
> 
> >       Both protocols exchange bandwidth parameters using 
> the various 
> >       RADIUS messages, and they are comprised of three phases:  
> >       bandwidth Advertisement, Selection, and Confirmation.
> >        
> >       Bandwidth Advertisement:
> >        
> >          MAY be sent in Access-Request packet from the AN 
> to the HSN 
> >          and conveys possible/available bandwidth 
> parameters that can 
> >          be allocated for an the AN client connection to 
> the HSN by the 
> >          AN.  Advertisements are optional.
> >        
> >       Bandwidth Selection:
> >        
> >          MAY be sent in Access-Accept packet and Change of 
> >          Authorization (COA) messages.  Selection conveys 
> the desired 
> >          bandwidth for the AN Client connection to the AN 
> by the HSN.   
> >        
> >       Bandwidth Confirmation:
> >        
> >          If Bandwidth Selection is received and enforced, 
> It MUST be 
> >          sent in Accounting-Request packets.  Confirmation 
> indicates 
> >          that the desired bandwidth parameters specified by 
> a HSN are 
> >          being enforced by the AN.   
> >        
> >        
> >       Bandwidth Attribute (BA), defined in section 3, is 
> used to carry 
> >       the Bandwidth Advertisement, Selection, Confirmation 
> in various 
> >       RADIUS packets.
> 
> RADIUS specific. Suggested rewrite:
> 
>        Both protocols exchange bandwidth parameters using the various
>        AAA messages, and they are comprised of three phases:
>        bandwidth Advertisement, Selection, and Confirmation.
> 
>        Bandwidth Advertisement:
> 
>           MAY be sent in Access-Request packet in RADIUS, and  the AAR
>           and DER commands in Diameter [Diameter NASREQ, 
> Diameter EAP],
>           from the AN to the HSN. The attributes convey 
> possible/available
>           bandwidth parameters that can be allocated for an 
> the AN client
>           connection to the HSN by the AN.  Advertisements 
> are optional.
> 
>        Bandwidth Selection:
> 
>           MAY be sent in Access-Accept packet and Change of
>           Authorization (COA) messages in RADIUS. MAY be sent in RAR
>           command in Diameter [RFC 3588]. Selection conveys 
> the desired
>           bandwidth for the AN Client connection to the AN by the HSN.
> 
>        Bandwidth Confirmation:
> 
>           If Bandwidth Selection is received and enforced, It MUST be
>           sent in Accounting-Request packets in RADIUS and in 
> ACR command
>           in Diameter. Confirmation indicates that the desired
>           bandwidth parameters specified by a HSN are being enforced
>           by the AN.
> 
>        Bandwidth Attribute (BA), defined in section 3, is 
> used to carry
>        the Bandwidth Advertisement, Selection, Confirmation in various
>        RADIUS packets and Diameter commands.
> 
> >         The AN MAY send an Advertisement in an 
> Access-Request message.  
> >         If the HSN receives an invalid Advertisement, then 
> the HSN MUST 
> >         silently discard the Access-Request.
> 
> I believe this text from 2.2.1 is unnecessary, as the MAY 
> already appeared in 2.2. The MUST part might be useful, 
> except that it would perhaps be better to move it too to 2.2.
> 
> > A HSN MAY send the Selection after receiving a valid 
> >         Advertisement.  It MAY also send the Selection in 
> the absence 
> >         of an Advertisement, based on local policies such as the AN 
> >         client s subscription profile.
> 
> So the bottom line is that the HSN MAY send the 
> advertisement, which was already stated in 2.2... suggested rewrite:
> 
>     A selection is sent after receiving a valid Advertisement,
>     or based on a local policy such the user's subscription
>     parameters.
> 
> (The style is explanation rather than normative language, I 
> think 2.2 already covered this pretty well.)
> 
> Similar comments apply to the rest of 2.2.1-2
> 
> >  Dynamic bandwidth allocation uses the Change of Authorization 
> >         (COA) message as defined in [3].
> 
> Suggested rewrite: "Dynamic bandwidth allocation uses the 
> Change of Authorization (COA) RADIUS message as defined in 
> [3], and the Diameter RAR message as defined in [RFC 3588]. 
> These messages are referred to as the re-authorization 
> messages in this specification."
> 
> In the rest of the section, change "COA message" to 
> "re-authorization message".
> 
> > or it may instruct the AN to generate an Authorize-Only 
> >         Access-Request (Access-Request with Service-Type set to 
> >          Authorize-Only ) in which case it is instructing the AN to 
> >         pull the BAs.
> 
> How about "or it may instruct the AN to generate an 
> authorize-only AAA exchange. In RADIUS this exchange is an 
> Access-Request with Service-Type set to "Authorize-Only". In 
> Diameter it is the AAR command with the Auth-Request-Type AVP 
> set to AUTHORIZE_ONLY. In either case, the HSN instructs the 
> AN to  pull the bandwidth attributes."
> 
> >    2.2.2.2 Pull Method
> 
> I'm not sure why the pull method is needed. Seems like in
> both pull and push the HSN needs to take the initiative. 
> Simplify by removing the pull method from the spec?
> 
> >    In the former case, the AN must generate an Accounting Stop 
> >    message containing the old bandwidth attributes followed by 
> >    an Accounting-Start message containing the current bandwidth 
> >    attributes.
> 
> Does this cause the real session to appear as a set of
> sessions in the accounting records?
> 
> >      The attribute MAY be present in Access-Request, Access-Accept, 
> >      Accounting-Request.
> 
> Duplicate text, but if you want to say something about the 
> attributes here, then an occurrence table per message would 
> be appropriate here. Alternatively, delete the text.
> 
> >             
> >            1   Average Minimum Bandwidth Rate for Ingress 
> Traffic in 
> >            bits per second 
> >            2   Average Minimum Bandwidth Rate for Ingress 
> Traffic in 
> >            Kilo bits per second 
> >            3   Average Minimum Bandwidth Rate for Ingress 
> Traffic in 
> >            Giga bits per second
> 
> Three attributes for the same thing appear a bit unnecessary, 
> imho. Also, it is not in line with the byte - gigaword 
> approach defined in RFC 2869. My suggestion is to provide the 
> rates as bytes/s and gigawords/s. This will compress your set 
> of attributes down to 8 instead of 12.
> 
> >    
> +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ 
> >    |     Type      |    Length     |     Params             
>        | 
> >    
> +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ 
> >    |                               Value                    
>        | 
> >    +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
> 
> I'm not sure I want to open the subtype can-of-worms here.
> Are these attributes deployed somewhere by some SDO and 
> vendor, and we can't change the format? If yes, we can think 
> about it, but then there may be issues for Diameter 
> translation. If not, my preference would be to use plain old 
> standards space RADIUS attributes. We don't need that many. 
> See also above. If that fails, VSA with vendor=IETF would 
> also work better for me.
> 
> Editorial:
> ==========
> 
> >  Authorize-Only )
> 
> Non-ASCII char.
> 
> > preformed
> 
> performed
> 
> > 1   Average
> 
> Non-ASCII char.
> 
> >       This  document  describes  network  bandwidth  
> parameters  and  
> > a
> 
> Additional spacing between words. I think the I-D guidelines 
> say that left justification is preferred.
> 
> >   protocol framework within which the parameters can be exchanged 
> >   between an Access Network (AN) and a Home Service Network (HSN) 
> >   in order to determine the average minimum and maximum bandwidth 
> >   for both ingress and egress traffic that should be allocated by 
> >   the AN for the duration of an authorized client session.
> 
> This is a pretty long sentence. Suggested rewrite:
> 
>      This document describes network bandwidth parameters and a
>      protocol mechanism within which the parameters can be exchanged
>      between an access network and a home network. The parameters
>      can be used to allocate and police the minimum and maximum
>      bandwidth for the user's session, for both ingress and egress
>      traffic.
> 
> >           This is a server which provides for
> 
> Non-ASCII char.
> 
> >           Dynamic Authorization Extensions to Remote Authentication
> 
> Non-ASCII char.
> 
> > pushing the BAs
> 
> pushing the bandwidth attributes?
> 
> >    3. Operations
> >     
> >      Operation  is  identical  to  that  defined  in  RADIUS  AAA 
> >      specifications  [1][2]  and  Dynamic  Authorization  
> Extensions  to 
> >      Remote Authentication Dial In User Service (RADIUS)[3].
> 
> This seems like an unnecessary section, imho. Refer to the 
> specs the first time you mention RADIUS, that should do it.
> 
> >    Authors  Addresses
> 
> Non-ASCII char.
> 
> >    Farid Adrangi, Intel Corporatation        
> farid.adrangi@intel.com 
> >    Chuck Black, Hewlett Packard Company      chuck.black@hp.com 
> >    Paul Congdon, Hewlett Packard Company     paul.congdon@hp.com 
> >    Farooq Bari, AT&T Wireless                
> farooq.bari@attws.com             
> >    Avi Lior, Bridgwater Systems Corporation  
> > avi@bridgewatersystems.com
> 
> This is not the usual style of author address lists.
> Here's an example format from RFC 2865:
> 
>     William Allen Simpson
>     Daydreamer
>     Computer Systems Consulting Services
>     1384 Fontaine
>     Madison Heights, Michigan  48071
> 
>     EMail: wsimpson@greendragon.com
> 
> --Jari
> 
> 

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