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Re: AW: Privacy (Was: Re: NAI decoration: User Identity issues)



Hi Lothar,

I suggested the use of the billing-identity attribute for "tracking" in response to the requirement stated by Klaas Wierenga:

"Some universities want to know the real identity of a user in case of abuse" which he made in the context of the following NAI: "anonymous@university-a.nl" which implies that the NAI can not be used for this purpose.

The point is, that I do not beleive that these universities require the real identity "in real time" - rather I assume it would be perfectly sufficient to be able to track down the real identity of an abusive anonymous user after the fact of abuse. In this case, the university would have to request the resolution of the anonymous user-name from the home network providing evidence that the request is legitimate.

Actually, currently this is exactly the path we are following. We have a project (http://www.sourceforge.net/projects/usertracking) that tries to gather all the relevant data to do this. And I agree completely with you that this is in general the desired behaviour. However I believe there are 2 buts:


- Sometimes you do want to track down realtime the abusive user, if some user from university-a is sending lots of spam via university-b, are you going to shutdown all users from university-a (since they are all anonymous@university-a to university-b) or just badguy@university-a? Just as a user has the right to only connect via a provider that guards their privacy I believe a visited institution should have the right to refuse anonymous users, it's after all their infrastructure they are giving access too.

- Universities or other entities may be in some kind of federation where they agree to share user data with eachother. Either the low level attributes of a user or some aggregated form of it.

As I mentioned before, I am not sure whether this kind of authorisation should be carried on this layer or on some other like EAP. I think however that there is value in giving the *possibility* to reveal the real identity of a user, this 'real identiy' may also be some kind of pseudonymous id, but it is useful to be able to distinguish individual users.


In my mind, the real problem is to find the right balance between the valid privacy and security requirements of the user, and the valid privacy and security requirements of the home-network povider, the intermediaries, the access provider and the Internet at large.

agreed


A privacy conscious user may contract only with a home-network that cares about privacy and resolves his true identity only to a legimitate requester providing strong evidence of abuse and of course only on the basis of local legislation of the home network anyway.

By the way: A privacy conscious home-network provider may not want to expose his customer's clear-text user-names to access-networks and intermediaries.

Yes, within the TERENA (the 'club' of european research and education networks) Taskforce Mobility (http://www.terena.nl/mobility) we try to do this by defining policies for the european toplevel RADIUS-server, the country level toplevel server and the institutional RADIUS-servers. Here we try to state what users can expect and also what 1 NREN can expect from the other NRENs.



In a nutshell, my proposal was actually aimed at avoiding the below cited horror scenario that Jari has put in the context of my name (much to my dislike):

Actually I'm trying to do the same. I have noticed that candidate participants to this hierarchy often are afraid they lack the tools to exclude abusive users/institutions and countries. By providing them the tools to exclude whoever they feel like the reality is that they don't bother to take any of these measures, just having the tools is enough insurance.


Klaas

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