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Re: shim6 @ NANOG (forwarded note from John Payne) (fwd)




On 1 mar 2006, at 09.10, Igor Gashinsky wrote:

3) While TE has been discussed at length already, but it is something
which is absolutely required for a content provider to deploy shim6. There has been quite a bit of talk about what TE is used for, but it seems that
few people recognize it as a way of expressing "business/financial
policies". For example, in the v4 world, the (multi-homed) end-user maybe visible via both a *paid* Transit path (say UUNET), and a *free* peering
link (say Cogent), and I would wager that most content providers would
choose the free link (even if performance on that link is (not hugely)
worse). That capability all but disappears in the v6 world if the Client ID was sourced from their UUnet ip address (since that's who they chose
to use for outbound traffic), and the (web) server does not know that
that locator also corresponds to a Cogent IP (which they can reach for
free). This change alone would add millions to the bw bills of said
content providers, and well, reduce the likelyhood of adoption of the
protocol by them. Now, if the shim6 init takes place in the 3way
handshake process, then the servers "somewhat" know what all possible
paths to reach that locator are, but then would need some sort of a
policy server telling them who to talk to on what ip, and that's something
which will not simply scale for 100K+ machines.

In this case you are hoping for non-asymmetrical paths, which might or might not be the case. See Jason's example of the UUnet and Sprint customer.

4) As has also been discussed before, the initial connect time has to be *very* low. Anything that takes longer then 4-5 seconds the end- users have a funny way of clicking "stop" in their browser, deeming that "X is down,
let me try Y", which is usually not a very acceptable scenario :-) So,
whatever methodology we use to do the initial set-up has to account for
that, and be able to get a connection that is actually starting to do
something in under 2 seconds, along with figuring out which sourceIP and
destIP pairs actually can talk to each other.

This was something that was brought up in the famous L.A Nanog session, but I actually fail to see in what way you think shim6 add delay to the initial hit? You will look up the destination in DNS, get multiple AAAA's back, perform RFC3483 and start communicating. That is the same, with or without shim6. If it is a short lived session and failure occurs, that is no worse than IPv4 which will also have to timeout and retry.

- kurtis -