Hi folks, Ned and I have been talking with Pete Resnick, the chair of APEX, about how to close the group. As many of you know, the group had most of its docs published as RFCs some time ago, but it has one trailing document, draft-ietf-apex-presence-06.txt. This is currently in the RFC editor's queue. If I understand the history right here, it is waiting for the publication of the drafts in IMPP, because there is an implicit reference to the presence model there. There are, in fact, no normative references in the document itself to work due from IMPP, but there was a working group charter item to create a CPIM compliant presence and IM system. As a result of that implicit reference, it is being held. The working group in question, however, is moribund. There is no chance that Ned, Pete, or I can see that they will actually produce against this charter item, as they are not working on the question of IM (or indeed anything else). Further, the document author for this, Graham Klyne, has lost his employment and is not interested in working on an unfunded item at this point. Everyone else has moved over to XMPP as a focus. To clear this, Ned and I believe the right thing is to move this document out from under the working group charter and make it an individual submission, so that we can close the working group. Perhaps more importantly, I'd like to suggest that we shift it from being a proposed standard to being Experimental (since it will not meet the charter item but does represent a piece of work that the IESG of the time felt was sufficiently technically complete to publish). That, I would suggest, means it could go forward out of the queue, since the implicit reference would be gone. Are there any objections to us taking this road forward? Thanks for your comments, Ted