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Re: Ethernet Control Plane [Was: Re: Frameformat in a l2cs gmpls rnvironment.]



hi igor,

[snip - hint: igor i suggest you create a thread on control vs management plane]

My view wrt Ethertnet GMPLS is this. I have no doubts
that we can come up with mechanisms to dynamically
provision L2SC LSPs.

ouf ;-)

My problem is the order of events. It does not seem to me wise to come up with
some control plane framework and solution(s) and after
that think what we need to do in the data plane.

actually, if this is the only problem you have, i should underline we do not have to initiate the definition of a specific forwarding paradigm so i am not necessarily sure about what you mean by the last part of the above sentence


It seems to  me wiser to learn how to statically
provision such LSPs, see how useful they are, and only
after that design and develop ways to provision them
dynamically.

i am not sure to follow how are you going to determine the benefit from dynamic provisioning by statically configure these LSPs ?


In other words, it is wiser to repeat what has been
done with TDM LSPs.

wiser ? ... would you clarify ? don't you think it is more appropriate to receive feedback on the appropriateness of the use of GMPLS for the scenarios depicted in the problem statement document rather than digress on non-rational argument such as "wiser", "careful" or so... ?


Cheers,
Igor



A control-plane is useful in the major co-cs
transport networks (mainly
for S-PVCs and resilience) but its a minor player
compared to role of
the management-plane.   The converse of course holds
in a *traffic*
carrying cl-ps  IP network, esp when this is in the
context of the
public Internet.....but of course this isn't the
case here and IP is
only being used as the transport protocol in the OOB
data-plane network
that carries the control/management-plane protocols.


These were points I wanted to make.....hopefully I've done a better job this time.

regards, Neil



-----Original Message-----
From: Adrian Farrel [mailto:adrian@olddog.co.uk] Sent: 23 July 2005 00:08
To: Harrison,N,Neil,IKM1 R
Cc: ccamp@ops.ietf.org
Subject: Re: Ethernet Control Plane [Was: Re:
Frameformat in a l2cs
gmpls rnvironment.]



Hi Neil,

I think John beat me off the blocks here, but...



GMPLS assumes an IP control plane.

An IP control-plane? There is actually no such

animal. Just what


the heck does that REALLY mean in GMPLS say?


Let me explain.
Perhaps I should have said "IP-based control plane".
I mean a control plane which:
- uses IP as its network protocol
- uses IP addresses to identify control plane
resources
- uses IP addresses to identify data plane resources
within the control plane
- uses protocols developed for use in the Internet.



I am not questioning IP as a cl-ps networking

protocol *carrying*


a signalling protocol (RSVP-TE, or dare I mention

PNNI, or any


signalling protocol yet to be invented) or a

routing protocol


(OSPF or ISO or whatever)


I am glad to hear it.


or even management protocols


Fine, but not in the remit of CCAMP.


but an 'IP Control Plane' per se means absolutely

nothing to me....

Well, I think it should. I think the list of
attributes that I have
given above define a control plane based on IP.


It is undoubtable that attempts have been made to
use control planes
based on other protocols. Some have been highly
successful. Some have
been less fortunate.


...nor should it to anyone else.


I think folks who were around at the beginning of
CCAMP and who were
part of the debate with the IESG will be very
familiar with where the
IETF draws the line here.



I think some folks might need a reality check

here....and also

on the self-assumed importance of a control-plane.

Hint: It ain't


that important.....the management-plane (which may

be using IP!)


however is.


I am not sure how to interpret this.
It may be that you think that control plane is bad
per se, but you have
said elsewhere that you think it has value - but
much less than the
management plane.
It may be that you believe that CCAMP is willfully
neglecting the
management plane. This would, in fact, be true. It
is not in CCAMP's
remit to look at the management plane. Other SDOs
are working to
establish common standards for management of network
devices across
multiple vendors - we can wish them luck.
Clearly some people (vendors and providers) see
sufficient value in a
control plane to invest time and energy.


The (hype) party is over for the OTN start-ups.

IP per se does NOT

define a *control-plane*...IP is cl-ps networking

techology period

....and its jolly important, but PLEASE don't try

and feed me any of

this 'IP control plane' nonsense.

=== message truncated ===




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