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Re: [idn] SUMMARY: reordering strawpoll

Obviously the strawpoll was split nearly 100% by country, with
China, Taiwan, and Korea in favor, and everyone else including
Japan opposed.

Personally I am in favor of dropping the whole thing, but it is
disturbing that everyone voting in the strawpoll from those three
countries voted in favor...

It is even possible to consider the compromise solution of
having reordering only apply to scripts from those three
countries only, except that presumably there is no way
to do that without having it apply to Japanese as well. The
Japanese will not like this, I think.

Therefore I would like to hope that the people from those
3 countries reconsider, and let us drop reordering from the
spec. We have a hard time as it is producing something
deliverable, and the gains of reordering are not really going
to make the end user notice a difference.

Bruce

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "James Seng/Personal" <jseng@pobox.org.sg>
To: "liana Ye" <liana.ydisg@juno.com>
Cc: <huangk@alum.sinica.edu>; <yone@po.ntts.co.jp>; <idn@ops.ietf.org>
Sent: Wednesday, November 28, 2001 2:44 PM
Subject: Re: [idn] SUMMARY: reordering strawpoll


> Thanks Liana.
> 
> I hope there are more discussion on this because we certainly cannot
> leave this hanging so I am going to post my personal views.
> 
> There are few ways we can read this. For example,
> 1. purely numbers, ie 30 vs 21 vs 2.
> 2. by group of people, ie many people disagree vs one group of people
>    with some individual who wants it
> 
> You may insert other ways to read it.
> 
> At the minimual, I think it is very safe to say we do not have consensus
> to add reordering to NAMEPREP-ACE, either from basic reading of the
> numbers or intepretion of the numbers.
> 
> -James Seng
> 
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "liana Ye" <liana.ydisg@juno.com>
> To: <jseng@pobox.org.sg>
> Cc: <huangk@alum.sinica.edu>; <yone@po.ntts.co.jp>; <idn@ops.ietf.org>
> Sent: Wednesday, November 21, 2001 5:40 PM
> Subject: Re: [idn] SUMMARY: reordering strawpoll
> 
> 
> > My interpretation is the people who are familar with
> >  Chinese character processing is used to frequence
> > based methods and love the benefit Reordering is
> > providing.
> >
> > Liana
> >
> >
> > On Wed, 21 Nov 2001 01:08:48 +0800 "James Seng/Personal"
> > <jseng@pobox.org.sg> writes:
> > > Yoneya-san,
> > >
> > > Thanks for posting the strawpoll summaries.
> > >
> > > Remember, strawpoll is not a vote. the number in itself (21 or 30)
> > > only
> > > means something depending on our interpretion.
> > >
> > > So Kenny, let me ask the question back to you :-) What do you think
> > > this
> > > statistic means?
> > >
> > > -James Seng
> > >
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > From: "Kenny Huang" <huangk@alum.sinica.edu>
> > > To: "Yoshiro YONEYA" <yone@po.ntts.co.jp>; <idn@ops.ietf.org>
> > > Sent: Tuesday, November 20, 2001 5:32 PM
> > > Subject: RE: [idn] SUMMARY: reordering strawpoll
> > >
> > >
> > > What does the statistics mean ?
> > >
> > > Kenny Huang
> > >
> > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > From: owner-idn@ops.ietf.org [mailto:owner-idn@ops.ietf.org]On
> > > > Behalf Of Yoshiro YONEYA
> > > > Sent: Tuesday, November 20, 2001 5:18 PM
> > > > To: idn@ops.ietf.org
> > > > Subject: [idn] SUMMARY: reordering strawpoll
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > On behalf of counters, I report the summary of reordering
> > > strawpoll
> > > > done during Nov 12-16.
> > > >
> > > > There were 55 mail in total during the period, and 2 were from the
> > > > same, so 53 were valid.  Following list shows senders' domain
> > > names.
> > > >
> > > > NO: 30 (there were 32 NO but 2 were duplicated)
> > > > aist.go.jp
> > > > alldomains.com
> > > > bic.nus.edu.sg
> > > > cequrux.com
> > > > cs.com
> > > > dsl.gr.jp
> > > > enic.cc
> > > > extundo.com
> > > > fm-net.ne.jp
> > > > goto.info.waseda.ac.jp
> > > > imc.org
> > > > ItsYourDomain.Com
> > > > jprs.jp
> > > > jprs.jp
> > > > linux.or.jp
> > > > macchiato.com
> > > > md.chalmers.se
> > > > microsoft.com
> > > > nic.ad.jp
> > > > nominum.com
> > > > po.ntts.co.jp
> > > > pobox.org.sg
> > > > pobox.org.sg
> > > > realnames.com
> > > > sra.co.jp
> > > > verisign.com
> > > > verisign.com
> > > > w3.org
> > > > zetnet.co.uk
> > > > sharif.edu
> > > >
> > > > YES: 21
> > > > cc.ncu.edu.tw
> > > > cnnic.net.cn
> > > > cnnic.net.cn
> > > > cnnic.net.cn
> > > > gate.sinica.edu.tw
> > > > iis.sinica.edu.tw
> > > > iis.sinica.edu.tw
> > > > mail.moe.gov.tw
> > > > ms1.url.com.tw
> > > > nic-naa.net
> > > > nic.or.kr
> > > > ports.se
> > > > postel.co.kr
> > > > sinica.edu.tw
> > > > spsoft.co.kr
> > > > twnic.net.tw
> > > > twnic.net.tw
> > > > twnic.net.tw
> > > > twnic.net.tw
> > > > whale.cnnic.net.cn
> > > > whale.cnnic.net.cn
> > > >
> > > > ABSTAIN: 2
> > > > lysator.liu.se
> > > > switch.ch
> > > >
> > > > --
> > > > Yoshiro YONEYA <yone@po.ntts.co.jp>
> > > >            aka <yone@nic.ad.jp>
> > > >
> > > > ----
> > > > From: "James Seng/Personal" <jseng@pobox.org.sg>
> > > > Subject: [idn] reordering strawpoll
> > > > Date: Mon, 12 Nov 2001 18:35:49 +0800
> > > >
> > > > > The working group co-chairs would like to conduct a strawpoll to
> > > > > guage the consensus of the working group on reordering
> > > > >
> > > http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-idn-lsb-ace-02.txt
> > > > >
> > > > > Instructions:
> > > > > - Send an email to idn-consensus@jdna.jp
> > > > > - In your subject, put a single word "YES", "NO", or "ABSTAIN"
> > > > > - Leave your body empty. Any text in body will be ignored.
> > > > >
> > > > > The strawpoll will conclude on 16th Nov 23:59 GMT. Counting will
> > > be
> > > > > done by wg members, Yoshiro Yoneya, Yves Arrouye, Dave Crocker
> > > and
> > > > > the co-chairs, Marc Blanchet & James Seng. The result of the
> > > poll
> > > will
> > > > > be made public after we tally the count.
> > > > >
> > > > > --- STRAWPOLL QUESTION ---
> > > > > Do you agree to include reordering (draft-ietf-idn-lsb-ace) into
> > > > > NAMEPREP-ACE architecture?
> > > > >
> > > > > ---- YES -----: mailto:idn-consensus@jdna.jp?Subject=YES
> > > > > If you say 'yes', then you agree to include reordering into
> > > > > NAMEPREP-ACE architecture.
> > > > >
> > > > > The implication of 'yes' result is that draft-ietf-idn-lsb-ace
> > > will
> > > be
> > > > > added into NAMEPREP-ACE architecture
> > > > >
> > > > > ----- NO -----: mailto:idn-consensus@jdna.jp?Subject=NO
> > > > > If you say 'no', then you disagree to include reordering into
> > > > > NAMEPREP-ACE architecture.
> > > > >
> > > > > The implication of 'no' result is that draft-ietf-idn-lsb-ace
> > > > > will be dropped from the wg core interest.
> > > > >
> > > > > --- ABSTAIN ---: mailto:idn-consensus@jdna.jp?Subject=ABSTAIN
> > > > > If you say 'abstain', then you are happy with either 'yes' or
> > > 'no',
> > > > > following the majority opinion.
> > > > >
> > > > > --- SILENT ----: Of course, you may choose to remain silent.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> 
> 
>