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Re: [Fwd: Re: [RMONMIB] I-D ACTION:draft-ietf-rmonmib-raqmon-pdu-08.txt]



Mike,

+1 with what Dan is saying....

Given a situation where a table is created for the purpose of organizing a set of objects for use in notifications, and, given that such a table has no columns other than index columns, then 2578, sxn 7.7, says one of the objects MUST have an access of read-only.  This outcome is different than accessible-for-notify, as is the case for the raqmonDsNotificationEntry with (at least one) non-index object.  This seems counter-intuitive, and likely not the intent of the standard.  I don't see why "accessible" must mean (at least) "read-only".

I would like to see a clarification on this point for the next mib review guidelines draft.  It sounds like most folks in this thread are in agreement on this point.  Are there other factors involved, that to be aware of here?

Regards,

Mark

Romascanu, Dan (Dan) wrote:
Mike,

I believe the raqmon issue was clarified, and I am happy. 

I still have a feeling the 2578 language is not crystal clear. 

  
 In the event that all of a conceptual
    
   row's columnar objects are also specified in its INDEX 
        
clause, then
    
   one of them must be accessible, i.e., have a 
        
MAX-ACCESS clause of
    
   "read-only".
        

...

  
No.  'read-only' is NOT an example, but the situation outlined in
RFC 2578 Section 7.7 is when ALL of a conceptual row's columnar
objects are also specified its INDEX clause. 
    

Can you clarify why making one of the objects in the case described in 2578 accessible by having a MAX-ACCESS clause of 'accessible-for-notify' is not enough? 

This would be the difference between i.e and e.g. 

Regards,

Dan



  
-----Original Message-----
From: C. M. Heard [mailto:heard@pobox.com]
Sent: 04 January, 2005 12:09 AM
To: Mark Ellison
Cc: Wijnen, Bert (Bert); Romascanu, Dan (Dan); Mreview (E-mail)
Subject: Re: [Fwd: Re: [RMONMIB] I-D 
ACTION:draft-ietf-rmonmib-raqmon-pdu-08.txt]


On Mon, 3 Jan 2005, Mark Ellison wrote:
    
There is currently a dicussion about a point in RFC 2578 sxn
7.7, as described below.  Possibly, this issue could be
clarified in the next id for the mib review guidelines?
      
First, I see that a solution to the specific problem has been
agreed upon:

    
2)  raqmonDsNotificationEntry
   objects used in index clause [raqmonDSRC, raqmonRCN,
   raqmonPeerAddrType, raqmonPeerAddr] according to
   SMIv2 (2578 sxn 7.7) should have a MAX-ACCESS of
   not-accessible.

   The two defined notifications, raqmonDsNotification and
   raqmonDsByeNotification require only index objects be sent.
   Since the value part of the object instance is included
   in the index portion of the varbind name, there is a
   unnecessary duplication of information.

   This suggests one of two alternative approaches- either
   a) change the OBJECTS clause for the NOTIFICATION-TYPEs
      to specify an accessible-for-notify object that is not
      mentioned in the INDEX clause of raqmonDsNotificationEntry
      and replace the current OBJECTs list with this object.
   b) change the raqmonDsNotificationEntry into a group of
      scalars, leaving the index objects with a MAX-ACCESS of
      accessible-for-notify, and, leaving the two defined
      NOTIFICATION-TYPEs as is.
[Romascanu, Dan (Dan)] I will go with your proposal a.

There are reasons to keep the table structure, so that the
information is correlated if the table is extended in the
future.
        
After looking at draft-ietf-rmonmib-raqmon-pdu-08.txt I also 
think that
solution (a) is appropriate.  The INDEX objects should then be given a
MAX-ACCESS value of 'not-accessible'.

    
[Mark Ellison] I like the table structure as well.

      
     Since 2578 Sxn 7.7 appears specifies that at least one
     object in an entry must have a MAX-ACCESS of at 
        
least read-only,
    
     it might be a good idea to address this point in the 
        
description
    
     clause of the entry, given the design choice to 
        
stick with the
    
     current organization, or, make an object read-only, and then
     restrict its MAX-ACCESS to accessible-for-notify in a
     compliance clause.

  [Romascanu, Dan (Dan)] Actually I believe that this is OK and we
  do not need a 'read-only' object. What RFC 2578 says is:

   a conceptual row must contain at least one columnar 
        
object which is
    
   not an auxiliary object.  In the event that all of a conceptual
   row's columnar objects are also specified in its INDEX 
        
clause, then
    
   one of them must be accessible, i.e., have a 
        
MAX-ACCESS clause of
    
   "read-only".

  "read-only" is an example. The objects in  
        
raqmonDsNotificationEntry
    
  are accessible-for-notify.

        
[Mark Ellison]  Yes, its the "i.e." part that requires 
      
clarification,
    
since "i.e." usually means "that is", whereas "e.g." 
      
usually means "for
    
example".  I've forwarded a copy of this email to Bert 
      
Wijnen.  Perhaps
    
a clarification can be added to the next id for the mib review
guidelines.  I hope an "e.g." was intended, and that a MAX-ACCESS of
accessible-for-notify is compliant in this regard.
      
No.  'read-only' is NOT an example, but the situation outlined in
RFC 2578 Section 7.7 is when ALL of a conceptual row's columnar
objects are also specified its INDEX clause.  That is not the case
with raqmonDsNotificationEntry.  If I correctly understand what I
read, it has 32 columns, of which four (raqmonDSRC, raqmonRCN,
raqmonPeerAddrType, and raqmonPeerAddr) are INDEX columns.  These
should have a MAX-ACCESS value of 'not-accessible'.  The remaining
28 columns have a MAX-ACCESS value of 'accessible-for-notify'.  I
see no contradiction with RFC 2578 Sec. 7.7.

I think that the language in RFC 2578 Sec. 7.7 is quite clear, and I
see no problems with it.  After this discussion, do you still think
that something needs to be clarified or changed?

Thanks,

Mike