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RE: Demoting rfc2223bis to an informative reference



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> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-mreview@ops.ietf.org [mailto:owner-mreview@ops.ietf.org]On
> Behalf Of David B Harrington
> Sent: Monday, January 10, 2005 14:20
> To: 'C. M. Heard'; 'Mreview (E-mail)'
> Subject: RE: Demoting rfc2223bis to an informative reference
> 
> 
> Hi,
> 
> If the goal is to try to break the dependency on a
> slow-to-be-finalized RFC, then I suggest a better approach would be to
> separate the document publication rules and the mib development
> guidelines - have any guidelines about publishing mib documents in the
> IETF system, e.g. mib boilerplates and mib security boilerplates and
> mib document IPR and mib document requirments for
> normative/informative references, moved into [rfc2223bis] (and
> http://www.ietf.org/ietf/1id-guidelines.txt and
> http://www.ietf.org/ID-Checklist.html) and make the mib guidelines
> document only about developing mibs, not about IETF document
> publication policies.
> 

MIB document authors like to have a single place where they can find all
the things they need to do in order to get a document past AD and MIB Doctor
review. And that includea dmin/bureaucratic stuff.

> MIB Doctirs shouldn't have to waste time reviewing whether the
> boilerplate is the most current revision, and whether the IPR
> statement is the right revision, and whether normative/informative
> references have been handled properly, and whether lines are less than
> 70 characters in length, etc. That should be handled by an
> IETF-publication-review-doctors group employed by the RFC-editor or
> the IESG for that specific purpose. MIB Doctors should be asked to
> review submitted mib modules for their mib design.
> 
I can agree with that, and I have no problem if MIB doctors tell me
   we will only look at MIB issues, not at all the references and
   idguidelines and ID-Checklist.
In fact for a lot of it we have tools like idnits and I personally have
a findref tool to check some of the referencing stuff.

> Bert, you have expressed concern about not having MIB doctors
> available for all the documents you need reviewed. If the job was
> about reviewing mib module designs rather than verifying IETF
> publication rules compliance, we might find more time to review mib
> modules for you.
> 

So either way works for me. If a MIB doctor tells me
  - I will review technical MIB stuff, you (AD) take care of nits and such
  - I will review everyting, including nits and such.

As longs as I know, and as long as we are clear in our feedback, so that the
AD (and authors) know what to do and expect.

I continue to think that having all that checking stuff consolidated in one
place (this review guidelines) would be a good thing (but this is my
personal opinion). Certainly now that we are so close to have it finished.

Bert
> David Harrington
> dbharrington@comcast.net
> 
> 
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: owner-mreview@ops.ietf.org 
> > [mailto:owner-mreview@ops.ietf.org] On Behalf Of C. M. Heard
> > Sent: Monday, January 10, 2005 6:44 AM
> > To: Mreview (E-mail)
> > Subject: Demoting rfc2223bis to an informative reference
> > 
> > MIB Doctors:
> > 
> > Bert has already looked over the following.  If I hear no objections
> > the proposed modifications will appear in the next spin.
> > 
> > Mike
> > 
> > ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> > Date: Sun, 9 Jan 2005 15:00:47 -0800 (PST)
> > From: C. M. Heard <heard@pobox.com>
> > To: "Wijnen, Bert (Bert)" <bwijnen@lucent.com>
> > Subject: Re: FW: Status of draft-rfc-editor-rfc2223bis-08.txt
> > 
> > On Fri, 7 Jan 2005, Wijnen, Bert (Bert) wrote:
> > > It looks to me, that we might be better of if we can massage
> > > things such that 2223bis becomes an informative ref
> > 
> > OK, I looked over the text again, and here is what I come up with.
> > Let me know what you think.
> > 
> > >    In general, IETF standards-track specifications containing MIB
> > >    modules are subject to the same requirements as IETF 
> > standards-track
> > >    RFCs (see [RFC2223bis]), although there are some differences.
> In
> > >    particular, since the version under review will be an 
> > Internet-Draft,
> > >    the notices on the front page MUST comply with the 
> > requirements of
> > >    http://www.ietf.org/ietf/1id-guidelines.txt and not with those
> of
> > >    [RFC2223bis].  In addition, since the specification 
> > under review is
> > >    expected to be submitted to the IESG, it MUST comply with
> certain
> > >    requirements that do not necessarily apply to RFCs;  see
> > >    http://www.ietf.org/ID-Checklist.html for details.
> > 
> > I think we could make the case that in this paragraph the reference
> to
> > 2223bis is informative ... the normative stuff in that in 
> > 1id-guidelines
> > and ID-Checklist.  At least that was my intent when I wrote it.  So
> I
> > propose to make no change here.
> > 
> > >    Section 4 of [RFC2223bis] lists the sections that may exist in
> an
> > >    RFC.  Sections from the abstract onward may also be present in
> an
> > >    Internet-Draft.  The "body of memo" is always required, 
> > and in a MIB
> > >    document MUST contain at least the following:
> > 
> > This reference is clearly normative, but I think we can justify
> > demoting it if we also provide a pointer to ID-Checklist.  So here
> > is the proposed replacement text:
> > 
> >    Section 4 of [RFC2223bis] lists the sections that may exist in an
> >    RFC.  Sections from the abstract onward may also be present in an
> >    Internet-Draft;  see http://www.ietf.org/ID-Checklist.html.  The
> >    "body of memo" is always required, and in a MIB document 
> > MUST contain
> >    at least the following:
> > 
> > > 2-----------
> > >    Section 4.7f of [RFC2223bis] specifies the requirements for the
> > >    references sections.  In particular, there MUST be 
> > separate lists of
> > >    normative and informative references, each in a separate
> section.
> > >    The style SHOULD follow that of recently published RFCs.
> > 
> > Similar considerations apply here.  Proposed replacement text:
> > 
> >    Section 4.7f of [RFC2223bis] specifies the requirements for the
> >    references sections in an RFC;  
> > http://www.ietf.org/ID-Checklist.html
> >    imposes the same requirements on Internet-Drafts.  In particular,
> >    there MUST be separate lists of normative and informative 
> > references,
> >    each in a separate section.  The style SHOULD follow that 
> > of recently
> >    published RFCs.
> > 
> > > 3------------
> > >    2.) Abstract -- verify that the abstract does not 
> > contain references,
> > >    that it does not have a section number, and that its 
> > content follows
> > >    the guidelines in [RFC2223bis].
> > 
> > I could replace [RFC2223bis] by 
> > http://www.ietf.org/ietf/1id-guidelines.txt
> > since they say the same thing about abstracts.  This is the 
> > proposed text:
> > 
> >    2.) Abstract -- verify that the abstract does not contain 
> > references,
> >    that it does not have a section number, and that its 
> > content follows
> >    the guidelines in http://www.ietf.org/ietf/1id-guidelines.txt.
> > 
> > I am a little bit uncomfortable about the second item in the 
> > list (I feel
> > that I am being a little bit slippery) but if you are OK with 
> > this I can
> > live with it too.
> > 
> > Mike
> > 
> > 
> > 
> 
> 
>