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Re: IETF multihoming powder: just add IPv6 and stir



--On Wednesday, 14 May 2003 11:01 +0200 Iljitsch van Beijnum <iljitsch@muada.com> wrote:

On woensdag, mei 14, 2003, at 08:30 Europe/Amsterdam, Masataka Ohta wrote:
[...]

No way. First of all having a routing table in each host is a huge waste
of resources. Second, why use fifth hand information if a host can simply
send some packets and see if they make it through? That's much more
effective and light-weight at the expense of some only a few otherwise
unnecessary end-to-end packets. Routing protocols seldom know which paths
are good. They barely know how to avoid the very bad and non-functioning
ones.
Just because the path is valid (and perhaps "good" by a reasonable set of metrics) does not mean that it is even near-optimal. A host sending a few packets to check a path will have no idea of the bandwidth along the path, for example.

The solutions should be end to end that complex functionality must
be performed only on hosts.
I agree in principle. However, if we can give people the option to
offload this to a middlebox if they so desire, that's a plus. (Which is a
very different thing from requiring middleboxes or requiring routers or
other non-middlebox boxes in the middle to do it.)
I think the right approach is to allow the functionality to be implemented hierarchically.

Hosts needs help from routing protocols.
That's the same logic as suing a lawyer. At the surface it seems to make
sense but you really don't want to do it if you can avoid it.

However, with multiple addresses to an interface, selection of source
address/locator can be performed properly only with the help from
routing protocol, which is a reason why IPv6 is broken in
source address selection.
The trouble with current transport protocols is that once you've selected
your source address you can't change it. So we change it and then listen
for ICMP messages to see when we have the wrong source address.
I think the right way to think about this is that whatever device is responsible for making decisions about dynamic source address selection can usually benefit from hints from the routing protocols.

[...]

Remember that path MTU discovery is pretty much mandatory in
IPv6 so you need those ICMPs.

No. PMTUD is one, among many, of a useless feature of IPv6.
Why is it useless?

Just send packets not loger than 1280B.
That's unacceptable.

In fact, we need to go even further and implement functionality in
neighbor discovery to enable the use of jumboframes between two hosts
that support them even though other hosts on the same subnet may not.
Exactly, although probably not important for small flows (< 100 Mb/s).

Ohta-san: Please consider the loss requirements for a trans-Pacific 10 Gb/s flow using the default Ethernet MTU.

Michael