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RE: QoS attributes



Good question John,

Well what do you call Bandwidth attributes and transporting them?  We are
certainly talking about tranpsorting Bandwidth parameters in a RADIUS
message.  It certainly makes sense to me to include Bandwidth attributes as
part of the authorization of a given service.  

Is Bandwidth part of QoS?  I think it is.


> -----Original Message-----
> From: john.loughney@nokia.com [mailto:john.loughney@nokia.com] 
> Sent: Sunday, January 04, 2004 3:52 AM
> To: rrroy@att.com; jari.arkko@piuha.net; Madjid.Nakhjiri@motorola.com
> Cc: avi@bridgewatersystems.com; radiusext@ops.ietf.org
> Subject: RE: QoS attributes
> 
> 
> Roy, Avi,
> 
> I am getting quite confused by this discussion.  Could I ask what 
> we are actually discussing?  RADIUS/Diameter are not 
> signaling protocols, they are AAA protocols.  RADIUS/Diameter 
> should not transport QoS information.  My expectation is that 
> they would be involved in authorization for QoS for some 
> services, but doing more would seem to be out of scope for 
> AAA protocols.
> 
> Am I missing something?
> 
> John
> 
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: ext Roy, Radhika R, ALABS [mailto:rrroy@att.com]
> > Sent: 03 January, 2004 16:34
> > To: jari.arkko@piuha.net; Nakhjiri Madjid-MNAKHJI1
> > Cc: Avi Lior; Loughney John (Nokia-NRC/Helsinki);
> > radiusext@ops.ietf.org
> > Subject: RE: QoS attributes
> > 
> > 
> > Let us take a single node/server situation where there is 
> only one AAA 
> > server.
> > 
> > Now, the situation is this: Let a SIP call comes with SDP
> > information of
> > audio, video, and data where QoS needs to be supported for 
> > each kind of
> > media.
> > 
> > How do you want to represent QoS attributes for each kind of media?
> > 
> > Even if you represent QoS attributes for each media, what 
> does the AAA 
> > server do with all those QoS attributes? How do go from 
> there to deal 
> > with those attributes? (Please note that it is a single node/server 
> > situation, not AAA node/server to node/server 
> communications as it can 
> > be seen in the case of roaming.)
> > 
> > Radhika R. Roy
> > rrroy@att.com
> > 
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Jari Arkko [mailto:jari.arkko@piuha.net]
> > Sent: Saturday, January 03, 2004 4:05 AM
> > To: Nakhjiri Madjid-MNAKHJI1
> > Cc: 'Avi Lior'; john.loughney@nokia.com; radiusext@ops.ietf.org
> > Subject: Re: QoS attributes
> > 
> > 
> > Nakhjiri Madjid-MNAKHJI1 wrote:
> > 
> > > Maybe I am missing your point as well, but again, the grouping  
> > > comes into my mind: Can you group the parameters into a 
> generic QoS 
> > > attribute, with subtypes (or AVPs) that the AAA server or 
> at least 
> > > the AAA intermediaries don't have to understand in details? They 
> > > just know it is a QoS related info they are passing along or 
> > > receiving?
> > > 
> > > At the moment I am going to through Diameter base RFC, trying to 
> > > understand how Diameter does this! I found the grouped 
> AVP values, 
> > > but I am not clear if all the original AVPs must be understood by 
> > > the Diameter nodes? Anybody cares for a hint :)
> > 
> > Intermediate nodes may not need to understand the AVPs. 
> (Grouping has 
> > nothing to do with that, its just a representation.)
> > 
> > For the transport of this information to be meaningful, 
> however, the 
> > end nodes have to *do* something with the information. It 
> may not be 
> > necessary that they understand the attributes, but on the 
> server side 
> > you have to at least
> > 
> > - Determine whether the NAS/client/service nodes are capable
> >    and willing to provide the requested QoS. Alternatively, you
> >    just provide the information on a do-it-if-you-can basis.
> >    In Diameter, you would probably set the 'M' (Mandatory) bit
> >    in the former case and reset it in the latter.
> > - Determine what QoS this particular sesssion should get, on
> >    a policy basis. This could be e.g. a configuration on a user
> >    database, but it could also be something more complicated.
> > 
> > On the NAS side you have to at least
> > 
> > - Parse the AVPs that you have been given, if the 'M' bit is
> >    on.
> > - Force the effect requested by the AVPs, for instance by
> >    setting the max bandwidth parameter on the interface, talking
> >    to an access point about the priority it gives to this
> >    particular session, or something like that.
> > 
> > In conclusion the 'M' bit functionality in Diameter allows you a 
> > limited form of control how the QoS instructions are to be 
> processed. 
> > Given that current nodes do not support the kind of QoS attributes 
> > this BOF is looking at, its likely that most usage would have to be 
> > M=0, at least for a while. However, for the QoS attribute 
> > functionality to be useful, the end nodes have to 
> "understand" them in 
> > some manner. We have the protocol means to carry the information in 
> > AAA without requiring too much of that, but just carrying 
> them in AAA 
> > is not enough for the effects. I think one big question 
> here is that 
> > if link layer or SDO specific QoS attributes become available,
> > what is the likelihood of the server attributes matching
> > those understood by the NAS in a roaming setting.
> > 
> > --Jari
> > 
> > 
> > --
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> > 
> 

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