RE: subtypes (was: HTTP digest and RADIUS; new version of the Sterman draft)

[<john.loughney@nokia.com>]

Hi Wolfgang,

> Agreed. Can you give an example where the extension drafts would break
> your product?

As I haven't seen the need for the extensions, I haven't considered
them in any great detail.

> > Talking to other vendors, I haven't heard a lot of vendors saying that
> > they would move from VSAs to standard extensions if available.  On top
> > of that, several folks on this list have stated that other SDOs need
> > some extentions - if that is so, I think it would be good if those
> > SDOs would make it known to the IESG / this list via the liasons that
> > already exist.
> 
> Providers (your customers) like standardized extensions better than
> vendor-specific ones. Else we have the choice between maintenance nightmare
> or vendors handcuffing us.

As far as I understand, many providers specify which VSAs they need supported.
Very rarely are they handcuffed to a particular supplier.

> > I think the IESG is looking for clear proof that RADIUS extensions are needed,
> > so I'd be interested in seeing some reasoning (perhaps even in draft
> > format) for this. Otherwise, I doubt the IESG will be really excited about
> > chartering this WG.  In otherwords, the burden of proof is upon those
> > who want to extend RADIUS.
>
> Like IPV6 migration, replacing RADIUS means replacing a platform, not just
> updating some systems.  Many providers can't afford to replace their AAA
> platform, just because it handles some error conditions nicer and is more
> extensible. The margins are pretty low in this business (not to mention the
> cash drain for buying Finnish 3G equipment).

This is exactly why we need to ensure interoperability.  If we extend RADIUS in
ways which would require RADIUS servers to be recoded, what is gained?  I think
that if Extension X provides the exact same functionality as VSA y, what is 
the need to support Extension X?  At in the GSMA, 3GPP, 3GPP2 and enterprise
sphere, many vendors are implementing VSAs - even VSAs not specified by
themselves.  I know in the enterprise sphere, vendors implement VSAs which 
are specified by competitors all of the time.
 
> We still develop IPV4 protocols within the IETF.

And we also make sure that they are not IPv4 specific.

John

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