John, I don't want to..... 1) the WG chairs have not yet said that his recent spate of messages is objectionable. I want to be very sure they are. 2) when I get that request, I want to kick him off the list for a limited time. The way the Marshall document is written, that's more or less a precondition for invoking the process. 3) The Marshall document would require blocking him from the IETF list, and would allow him to be removed from poised, pkix and all his other stomping grounds without further process. I don't want to invoke that without a VERY clear statement that "we can do this". In summary: First kick him off, AND approve the document. Then see what happens. Harald --On 27. juni 2003 14:46 -0400 John C Klensin <john@jck.com> wrote:Harald, You have warned Todd in private. You have warned him in public. He is still posting, indeed, in the message I pulled out of the trash and looked at, cross posting to Poised and IPR. Since most of Marshall's "procedure for kicking people out" can be implemented without approving documents (i.e., it is within IESG discretion as I read things), perhaps it would be interesting to see if that mechanism could be used in Todd's case, thereby obtaining "running code" before actually casting the proposed procedure in concrete. Formally, you should consider this note a comment to the IESG on Marshall's model and proposal. regards, john