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Re: [RRG] GSE?
I'm not a co-chair, but I'd still like to echo Tony's comments. There
are some very smart people working in this group, but there's a
disconcerting number of people who are primarily interested in
discussing the merits of their own proposals. Often, those folks will
discuss the proposals of others or some of the larger topics only in
the context of comparing them with their own proposals.
In my opinion, we're way to early for concrete implementations.
There's a definite need to identify the problem space a bit better, as
well as a need to enumerate the likely and reasonable solutions. While
I don't want to discourage anyone from playing with an implementation,
I'd prefer that the mail on this list was more focused on the large
scale problems. There are times when the signal to noise ratio (in the
form of implementation discussions versus tangible progress) gets to be
very poor. That makes it difficult for those of us in the operator
community to continue to follow the discussion.
Please, let's try to stick to a more conceptual disucssion.
-David
On Thu, Jun 12, 2008 at 04:58:57PM -0700, Tony Li wrote:
>
>
> Again, I would like to get out of the mode of talking about individual
> proposals. If folks want to have a conceptual discussion about
> transformation solutions in general, I'd welcome that.
>
> Tony
>
>
> |-----Original Message-----
> |From: Brian E Carpenter [mailto:brian.e.carpenter@gmail.com]
> |Sent: Thursday, June 12, 2008 4:22 PM
> |To: Xu Xiaohu
> |Cc: tony.li@tony.li; lixia@CS.UCLA.EDU; 'Routing Research Group'
> |Subject: Re: [RRG] GSE?
> |
> |Hi,
> |
> |I think the interesting question is: how many of those
> |issues apply to ILNP?
> |
> |Also remember that some of the esd-analysis issues were
> |disputed, which is really why the document never became
> |an RFC.
> |
> | Brian
> |
> |On 2008-06-12 16:29, Xu Xiaohu wrote:
> |> Hi Tony and Lixia,
> |>
> |> How about launching the review and discussion on the listed
> |issues of GSE in
> |> draft-ietf-ipngwg-esd-analysis-05 one by one, so as to see
> |whether some of
> |> them are still big issues from current point of view and to
> |find something
> |> we can do now to fix these issues?
> |>
> |> Best regards,
> |> Xiaohu XU
> |>
> |>> -----邮件原件-----
> |>> 发件人: owner-rrg@psg.com [mailto:owner-rrg@psg.com] 代表 Tony Li
> |>> 发送时间: 2008年6月12日 1:35
> |>> 收件人: 'Mayutan A.'; 'Robin Whittle'
> |>> 抄送: 'Routing Research Group'
> |>> 主题: RE: [RRG] GSE?
> |>>
> |>>
> |>> Hi Mayutan, Robin,
> |>>
> |>> Isn't the Six-One proposal by Christian Vogt an
> |enhancement of the
> |>> GSE.
> |>> http://www.watersprings.org/pub/id/draft-vogt-rrg-six-one-01.txt
> |>>
> |>> Correct me if I am wrong.
> |>>
> |>> You are exactly correct. I still encourage folks to read GSE
> |> independently,
> |>> just so you have some perspective on Christian's changes.
> |>>
> |>> Also, some of the work that Ran Atkinson has done has been
> |in part derived
> |>> from GSE.
> |>>
> |>>
> |>> GSE seems to have been developed briefly around 1997. I
> |>> understand
> |>> that applying it to IPv6 as used today would
> |involve major
> |>> changes
> |>> in routers, host stacks and some or all applications.
> |>>
> |>> There may well be some major attractions in
> |doing this, if
> |>> it could
> |>> be done, but it sounds like a radical thing on
> |which to bet
> |>> the
> |>> future of the Net.
> |>>
> |>>
> |>> Welcome to the IRTF. Our job is research. No job too
> |large, no change
> |>> unthinkable.
> |>>
> |>>
> |>> Could you or someone else put together a
> |proposal and link
> |>> to it
> |>> from the RRG wiki? An 8 page summary and
> |analysis document
> |>> would be
> |>> good too.
> |>>
> |>>
> |>> Others should feel free to step up here. I'm trying to
> |remain neutral.
> |>>
> |>>
> |>> A crucial part of this would be the time-frame for
> |>> transitioning the
> |>> current IPv6 system to whatever it is you are
> |planning, and
> |>> then
> |>> having a transition plan for most end-users
> |from IPv4 to the
> |>> new system.
> |>>
> |>> I think it would also be good to explain why you would
> |>> prefer to do
> |>> this in a hurry for IPv6 - due to whatever
> |urgency you or
> |>> other
> |>> people might think about the IPv4 scaling
> |problem - rather
> |>> than
> |>> fixing the IPv4 problem with a map-encap scheme and then
> |>> being able
> |>> to take more time on whatever it is you propose
> |for IPv6.
> |>>
> |>>
> |>> I'm not in a hurry to do anything. There's no need. I'd
> |much rather Get
> |> It
> |>> Right. Whatever we do here is forever.
> |>>
> |>>
> |>> I haven't read enough to know how it provides
> |multihoming
> |>> and
> |>> portability (of the ESD part of the address)
> |when changing
> |>> ISPs.
> |>>
> |>>
> |>> The ESD would be a constant when changing ISPs. That's the
> |whole point.
> |>> Identifiers are decoupled from locators.
> |>>
> |>>
> |>> So how does the Routing Goop and STP get set
> |when the packet
> |>> leaves
> |>> the site for another? Does a router change
> |them or does the
> |>> sending
> |>> host have to get it right. Does there need to
> |be a mapping
> |>> function
> |>> and consequently a mapping database to
> |determine what to set
> |>> these
> |>> to, since the ESD is what uniquely identifies the
> |>> destination host?
> |>>
> |>>
> |>> Presumably set by a router when you exit the subnet and/or
> |the site. Yes,
> |>> there needs to be a mapping database to determine
> |destination RG and ESD.
> |>> One might reasonably extend DNS to do this. No mapping
> |database is needed
> |>> in the site's local routers as they would presumably be
> |configured with
> |> the
> |>> RG or learn it via some other management mechanism such as
> |SNMP, DHCP, the
> |>> IGP, or your favorite NMS.
> |>>
> |>>
> |>> What lead to the demise of GSE ten years ago?
> |>>
> |>>
> |>> I wasn't directly involved, but my read was that it was
> |politics. Because
> |>> it modified v6, it was unacceptable to those that felt that v6 was
> |> perfect.
> |>> We seem to be over that now...
> |>>
> |>> Regards,
> |>> Tony
> |>>
> |>>
> |>> --
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> |>
> |>
> |>
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> |>
> |
> |
>
>
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